If I keep ganking the same person over and over again, is that illegal according to TOS?

I just want to know wheres the borderline of constantly ganking the same person over and over again?
When does it become illegal (if ever)… after 2 ganks? 3?

or what? how many times can I gank the same person per day?

thanks

PS: I dont wanna do anything against the TOS hence why Im asking so I know what I can and cant do.

Answer from active Senior GM about current (12/2019) CCP policies on this:
(worded differently than GM reply so it doesnt break forum rules but its pretty much this)

"Its OK, within current CCP stance to continuously gank, scam, spy, bump, threat, steal, pirate, extort and attack the same player or any other player for as many times as you want, INCLUDING following him around,… because the opportunity to do so is built in the game mechanics!"

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Could easily be seen as griefing and would be in most games, Same person day after day certainly makes it sound personal.

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so how many times can i gank the same person per day before it becomes personal or against the TOS in eve?

I just want to know a number or the right answer.

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You should know if it’s personal or not, if it isn’t personal why would you want to gank them over and over again?

If you are hounding someone to the point they can’t play the game and their only option is to leave then that definitely should be against the TOS.

Like most things you have to use your own judgement, you should know if you are causing that person a problem or not.

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Not many.

Ganking is tolerated by CCP, but not necessarily by all the GMs - there have been plenty of people who got banned for doing it just a little bit too much. Even if you just gank random haulers in Uedama, you wouldn’t want to do it all day, every day.

Katia Sae got a statue; loyalanon got a permaban.

If the victim moves to a different region of space and you follow them there to gank them then you are very likely to get banned. If the guy shows up to mine the same ice belt every day and you gank him, you are less likely to have problems.

CCP has clearly stated that they will not respond to questions like yours. They prefer to assess everything on a case-by-case basis.

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Generally interpretations like that are left up to the discretion of the game managers.

They know that people with a griefer mentality will take any answer they give in advance and find a way to exploit it.

That said, if you are ganking somebody multiple times per day, or day after day… they might step in but I would really think it’s the gankee’s responsibility to find a way to deal with the issue. (Unless you are using some sort of exploit or loophole against them of course.)

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How do you know, its a person!?

I think it would depend on if you are following them and constantly ganking them or if they keep coming to you. I have had instances where I killed the same person several times in a row but every time was on the same gate. Not really griefing if they keep coming to me . I am just killing everyone that comes through including them and they keep coming anyway.

Quoted for emphasis.

However, the “grey area” is known to a certain degree.

Generally speaking:

  • If you are repeatedly ganking a person you are at war with… then it is not against the TOS.
    The person being ganked has a means of escaping the war (see: dropping out of the corporation).

  • If you are repeatedly ganking a person who keeps coming through the same stargate / wormhole you are camping… then it is not against the TOS.
    The person being ganked can take different routes and avoid your gatecamp. Or bring in others (not necessarily friends) to crash it.

  • If you are repeatedly ganking a person who keeps filling their ship with valuable things and you are making a decent payday from it… it may not be against the TOS.
    The person being ganked does have options for avoiding being profitable to gank or to avoid/mitigate the danger altogether.
    But odds are the GMs may simply ask you to stop after so many times.

  • If you are repeatedly ganking a person for no personal gain or reason other than “just because”… then it is against the TOS.
    In this scenario… ganking a random “just because” isn’t the problem. It is the “repeatedly” part that is.
    As others pointed out above, no hard numbers are ever going to be given. Otherwise more malicious players will use that to their advantage.

edit:

If anyone wants a hard and fast rule regarding the TOS it is this:

If what you are doing causes ethical or technical issues…

  • put in a ticket to the GMs for an official answer.
  • do NOT perform said action(s) in EXCESS.

The former will give you guidelines on how to avoid the banhammer.
The latter will keep you off the banhammer’s radar.

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If you are camping same gate and he is coming over and over it’s ok , as he is coming to you not otherwise. But if you hunting him across several systems then yeah seems griefing to me.

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Wrong, ganking is accepted gameplay.

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There is no fixed number. If you need to ask you’re doing it wrong.

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The fact you’re asking shows you already think you are.

The way its been word by CCP you are breaking the rules, they say if you constantly attack the same person and even follow them into another system to continue attacking that same person its classed as harassment.

But theres also the question is the target trying to avoid being attacked?

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I’m pretty sure you don’t have to worry about this as long as you’re not following him around if he tries to get away from you. If he keeps coming to your area of operation and doesn’t even bother to do what it takes to avoid being ganked, despite you repeatedly ganking him, that’s his problem, not yours.

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Taking a GM response from an old thread on bumping, CCP would consider an activity to be harassment, and thus “illegal”, under the EULA as:

“following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.”

Another location is defined by the following:

“While it will involve inconvenience, we will have to see that one actively tried evasion before we consider someone being followed around and harassed. Merely changing belts in the same system or moving a few thousand meters to another asteroid would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly, requiring some effort to locate you again (i.e. through locator agents).”

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/2536157/#post2536157

That’s as close to a definitive answer to the OP’s question as we’re likely to get.

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But, why?

But they can just log out or change characters.

I think the important question is why you are ganking that specific person over and over. If there is a valid in game reason for the ganking, for example:

  • Revenge
  • You want to discourage miners/ratters/explorers/people-in-general in a certain system/constelation/region/universe
  • You role-play a member of Pilots for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids (PETA)

then I suspect (disclaimer: I am not a gm/ccp/lawyer) that it’ll be fine, and you can gank as much as you want. Just make sure you’re consistent (be systematic: kill all players satisfying some in game criterium, not just BunnyMiner123) and make sure they have an ‘out’, either by stopping whatever behaviour offends you, or moving corps/regions.

Edit: also please share with us the juicy details of why you want to kill someone over and over! (and if that’s not allowed in this channel, my apologies, but post it over in Crime&Punishment)

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And this is why many noobes don’t stay.

If you can’t see the answers you might have an issue. As the OP has asked if he is harassing a player means he questions his action, as he might think he’s been too close to his personal moral standings of what’s bad personal behaviour to others.

If you don’t have these thoughts/feelings, i’d be concerned about your social skills in the real world and face to face. Don’t know you personally, but was you posted does raise questions. :wink:

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Assume, for a moment, that I am some sort of sociopath or psychopath (or an AI) who has no qualms about violating social norms concerned with interpersonal boundaries and decency in interacting with others.

Now look at my question again. WHY should it be against the TOS or EULA to gank someone over and over until they log out or quit the game or who-the-[expletive deleted]-cares? Do I not pay for interaction as I see fit? Why should CCP enforce an arbitrary moral code and why the specific moral code you are advocating for?

There is nothing wrong with profiting from kill rights, it’s like an insurance policy that pays you as the client instead, bit by bit, over and over, to cover the cost of any ship you may actually lose the day you gotta run and take a crap before you got a chance to dock up.