For the attention of all forum members and @CCP_Convict @CCP_Dopamine @CCP_Fleebix @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode @ISD_Golem
First of all, I would like to thank CCP for providing and sustaining this forum environment to us for years … This is a great place where we can meet with other capsuleers, share our ideas, and discuss myriad subjects.
To contribute better forum environment , here I do suggest :
- Create an informative document that introduces forum perks and features.
- Make the “ignore” feature available for everyone.
Reasoning and an Argument:
Here is some information I learned recently about this software and as well as I realised many Forum members are not aware of these facts. This post contains ideas and suggestions derived from recent 2 prior posts on the subject.
Eve Online forums using the software application called Discourse since 2017. And mostly moderated by the volunteer group ISD.
Discourse has trust lvl system:
Understanding Discourse Trust Levels | Blog here you can read about it. when a new player starts using EvE Online Forums they have started with Discobot which introduce the discourse system.
But this introduction is about the discourse and does not contain anything about HOW EvE Online forums are customised.
Given trust LvL criteria in the link and naming of these Trust lvls are different in Eve Online forums.
This means EvE Online forum members are not AWARE of the perks and criteria.
For example the “IGNORE” feature is presented as a perk and does not grant to forum members until Trust level 3. But I don’t know what name / title Eve Online forums using regarding to LVL 3.
in one of those prior threads, one of the members argued towards this is useful for incentivising players to engage more to gain these perks.
The issue here is: Nobody knows those perks.
Most players who are not aware there is an option to ignore other users…
Some who has ignore option does not aware about not everybody has this option.
Both threads players need to make print screens to show another pilot who told them "you can ignore " to prove that they cant.
There was no single individual who has an idea about the criteria where it starts and where it ends.
CCP and forum admins definitely can not claim that this system can be functional in a way that incentivises players to the direction to be more focused, more conscious Without them having an idea about it. For example, warnings and short term bans can take these perks away from you. Even though you have thousands of posts in the threads and are active every day for years. And regardless of you have been right or wrong when you are punished and contest and win you lose these perks. And many players are not even aware of these facts.
IF they are not aware of these things. How do you expect these aspects to function as a drive and incentivising dynamic on community development in forums?
This aspect here presents itself as wasted potential.
Link I have sent up there Discourse refer a book which clearly inspired them in he process of developing the software :
As I need it… I bought the kindle version and wolf it already. To get a better understanding of the way discourse devs inspired while building this set-up and understand the logic behind it. To build up a better argument around this subject.
In that book ( Loc 130 :roles . Loc 2050 : Player types , chapter 6, Etiquette Loc 2938 ) you can clearly see the logic discourse trust level system build on.
Considering this Forum software is not developed by CCP, of course it has limitations to adapt to our needs %100 but Luckily CCP has options to customise these according to our unique specialities.
At this point I would like to present my second suggestion and reasons:
In discourse “ignore” opens up at stage 3. by that saying I don’t know what is the name CCP use for this lvl. Is capsuleer higher than regular? What does veteran mean? What is the hierarchy/order? which one comes first then next and what are the criteria?
“Harassment”, “Offense”, “trolling”, By all means, I will not begin to describe these terms here. As many people mentioned in prior threads, this can perceive very subjective and in forums end decision-maker about what is harassment or offence or not decided by ISD.
In Eve Online forums. trolling, flaming, harassment very often cause threads to be closed… sometimes very important OP subjects are unfortunately closed by ISD for these reasons and the subject does not allow to be re-open and discussed by the players even there are players who would like to talk about this subject decently.
There are many ways to insult and harass someone without using these "obvious -well known- words. Skilful trolls know very well these things and how to get around and still create more than enough frustration within forum members and they are simply capable to close any Thread they would like to.
On the other side Troll OP threads have visibly attracted more interest and as a good example, 2. thread about this subject created 267 posts under 24 hours.
The first OP thread opened by me on the same subject ( Descently written ) generated 20 posts in 20 days.
Since 2019 total 3 OPs in forums suggesting and discussing for IGNORE option generated total of 76 posts.
1 troll OP about the subject generated 267 posts under 24 hours.
As well as multiple forum members clearly stated in that thread that they do enjoy seeing train wrecks and trolling in forums and even coming to see those things.
Even though these kinds of actions are clearly up against the forum rules and policy, This is also the reason some forum members find enjoyment. Their comments are still on the thread with their own words.
Trolls expect a reaction and feed on it. Either from their target as primary or from audiences secondary. And they do everything to push this. IT gets very tiresome being exposed that in several different threads and several posts in the same threads. sometimes it keeps going and on regardless you do answer or not. “Ad hominem” has a very clear description. Meanwhile, Ad rem arguments always present and yields higher qualities both in discussion and general forum environment. Tu quoque, ad hominem, non-sequitur always open gates for derailed threads and troll heavens.
Giving everybody the right and chance to keep their own forum environment fresh and clean will improve our Eve Online forums experience.
Current moderation in forums on the shoulders of the limited amount of ISD’s. discord outsourcing the moderation some degree by report button. On the other hand. In that same example thread player who owns a higher trust lvl and is capable to ignore other players, openly sent off-topic, ad hominem posts with zero contribution to OP subject and used to try this privilege and status as a tool to intimidate another member.
I do strongly believe this option some degree helps ISD and take some weight from their shoulders and reduce the success rate of trolling, provide some more serenity for forum members who expect and enjoy more quality and focused, constructive, ad rem discussions.
“IGNORE” feature should not be a privilege. It should be “RIGHT” for all forum members.
Here is the link for enable to customise “Ignore” feature in Discourse:
