It hit 55k+ 6 times over the course of 4 years. And had a fairly decent average of 50k over that same period of time
You were able to read the post same as me. It’s true that the person in the example claimed they didn’t sub their accounts due to the price.
I’m aware of the discount. There was another one in October I believe that was 25% off when you subbed your account with plex. All of that is irrelevant. The point was made that the current pricing structure kept people from subbing, and provided the person in the example was telling the truth, that’s exactly that happened.
I like how you gloss over most of the thread and zero in on the one piece of speculation - even if it was, at worst, an educated guess. Impressive.
Oh, but it is very much in the spirit of eve.
We already have president with alphas. Beyond all the other ways to spend plex, using daily injectors will cost roughly 750 plex for the month if buying them one at a time, or 600 if the player manages to get them in bulk. Alternatively, the player could purchase the needed injectors off the market for 1.5 billion isk. A much better deal.
sounds like you just want stuff for free.
More seriously though, caps are alliance level assets. It makes sense to charge them more.
I’m pretty sure CCP used to give out special deals to people who haven’t played for a while. Not sure if they’re still doing that.
Criticism by pointing out weaknesses only reflects on the idea, not the person. Just remember that. The PCU graph is an all-thread favorite go-to magic box from which to pull rabbits at leasure. But to say that “numbers (of subscribers) may have very well dropped further” during a rise of PCU is anything but an “educated” guess. It’s a baseless claim to try to get what you want, like the rest of your vivid phantasy.
And those claims have always been dismissed when the full information on the product was available to the potential consumer. But somehow you forgot to “copy/paste” the full sentence, so I repeated it here.
Oh goodie. 4 years out of 20. Yeah, that’s a real trend to prove a point.
You seem quite happy to extrapolate limitlessly from single points. Did you do a well-designed survey, or would you just have the rest of us believe your so-called trend to be a general one ?
Btw, where is the trend suggesting that adding Steam into the mix actually increased the PCU in the long term ? Or is Steam just a convenient and stable way of advertizing for CCP products ?
On the contrary. We’ve been able to retain a stable and fair (financially) playing field, no small thanks to the CSM. But go ahead, pitch your “idea” to the CSM.
Giving a free sample (alpha) of a product (EvE Online) is not equal to discrimination, lol. It’s a way of attracting new subscribing customers. It’s anything but a precedent. You would however, introduce paid inequality by having this discriminating beta level. And please, don’t start about plexing etc. Plexing accounts is pretty much available to any (paying) player making the first investment to enable multiboxing.
On the contrary, you missed the point of a new inequality.
Really ?! I must have a talk with a few people…
It makes sense to charge corporations and alliances more, or at least their cap pilots ? On the basis of … ? That’s some funny tobaccy you have there. Good luck with your crusade.
1.) Long time players have paid their time with cold hard cash.
2.) Mid time players have paid their time here with cold hard cash and time earning their subs.
3.) the newer players, the garbage players want to have everything 1 and 2 have now without paying in cash or time.
Item 3 need to go play a different game or just suck it up and shut up.
Yup, I second that, that would be a good way for them to test the waters without sacrificing too much. At least that way they know the general response to a new sub tier without having to rely on a small minority of the playing population commenting on the related threads in the forums
The point you were “criticizing” was still just speculation, it wasn’t an idea I was claiming to be true, just that it could possibly be true. So yeah, ignoring all the actual evidence from the post and zeroing in on the speculation, which I didn’t even claim as truth, is your own piece of fantastical logic.
That’s what you do in data analysis, you see potential patterns, make a theory, and then go gather data to either refute or or prove said claim. You don’t start theories with solid fact. And since I don’t have access to that data set, because CCP will likely never release it, all I can offer is theories. You and I can do nothing with that, but if CCP were to see it, they could. And I do know they look through the topics here from time to time, because a couple of my ideas have been implemented.
Having a personal attachment to the claim is pointless. In other words, your attempt at imputing motives to me is flawed, because I don’t actually care one way or the other how CCP monetizes the game (as long as they stay away from selling gold ammo,) I just want them to make more money so they have more resources to spend on the game.
I love how you’re quite willing to bandy about the “baseless claim” phrase, but have no qualms about making your own.
Steam pcu started around 1k users in 2013, peaked at around 10k at the end of 2020, and has settled back in around the 5-6k mark. That is a significant subsection of the overall player base. Obviously, I have no data on how many of that number are subscribers.
We don’t really have any way of knowing one way or the other how many people would be playing EVE if CCP wouldn’t advertise on platforms like Steam and Epic. I assume it’s worth their while, but there’s no way for peasants like us to know.
I would assume the overall pcu is higher, just because that’s what advertising does. That said, it’s likely a bit less than the steam pcu numbers, because there’s a lot of overlap in the online / gaming sphere.
Regardless, it’s basically irrelevant to the initial point made.
I’m not even sure how to respond that that. You trying to dismiss 4 years of an average pcu count of 50k players (when alphas weren’t even available to the player base) as unimportant is extremely strange to me.
The point was made that subscriber numbers were inferred to be declining after that peak, which is likely the reason why Alphas were added in the first place, to bolster server numbers and to provide a way for alphas to become paying members through plex sales.
It’s available to any player, not just “paying” players. In relation to Alphas, it effectively turns them into paying players through in game activity. This was true even back before Alphas existed, as CCP allowed people to log into their accounts for a few hours, or in some cases days, so they could plex an account if they so desired.
Sure, ignore that actual point where I quoted plex pricing for injectors and pretend I was saying something entirely different.
Have you ever considered the reason why the quality of your conversations have declined in recent years has more to do with the fact that you’re perpetually misrepresenting other people’s arguments?
You seem to be pretty emotional over this whole thing. Perhaps your own points are mostly projection…
The one issue I see with that, is it wont exactly tell them how it would impact long term sales.
People who pay the sub cost, tend to buy the larger packs, so they’re subbed for multiple months or even years. As such, they likely wont be purchasing those packs.
You’ll get some people who are unsubbed to buy the limited beta sales, but that wont tell ccp how many people would do a beta sub instead of an omega.
I suppose they could extrapolate out to the larger population based on the number of previous omega players who are now betas and contrast that with previous months where omegas became alphas. That sort of test is not overly reliable though… so they’d probably have to do it several times, where it was only possible to buy one month at a time.
Another benefit of making it a limited test, is you’ll get less whinging from existing playing players.
On a good day you would perhaps acknowledge it to be a working hypothesis - which you would challenge with facts, and not a theory. But today doesn’t seem to be your good day, perhaps through lack of, you know, facts. What you suggest in your posts with a beta sub is to create new data to enable verification of at best a working hypothesis.
That is not answering the question, again because you fail to quote the whole thing, which included “long term”. Or in other words, catering to a subpopulation of potential (!) EvE customers via Steam with an offer of “beta” subscriptions, is that in any way based on an increased customer retention (i.e. long term), or just an extrapolation of “some other games use it, so why not EvE ?”. For the record, I do not care one cent about alphas coming into EvE in droves via Steam and only increase PCU if 1) they don’t stay long term - which is very much what this particular product requires for longevity and 2) don’t pay for their consumption of the product.
There is zero evidence that a beta sub would increase revenue, or PCU or long term sub’ing. So that’s highly relevant.
Yep, I dismiss it because 4 instances of a +50k peak in 4 years is just that. It’s not even an average of 50k during those years, but I’ll let you figure that one out. Of course the overall average over that 4 year segment was higher than every other 4 year segment before and after it, so it’s still is a 1 to 5 ratio, in other words 20% of the lifespan. You may believe that beta subs will bring back peaks of 50k, that’s your prerogative, just like it’s mine to doubt it on the basis of “no information whatsoever available”.
twice wrong: 1) bolstering server numbers with unpaying visitors as such is without merit. The business side of things wants revenue; 2) No sane alpha would continue to spend cash on plex instead of spending it on omega, Sub’ing is the cheaper deal as a player, especially if you buy multiple months or wait for the omega deals.
Now you’re just being contrarian. Unless you turn eve into a genuine daytime job good luck and have fun getting the isk to buy 500 plex every month via an alpha character.
So is that “recent” or is it “perpetual” ? It can’t be both. As to the quality of your replies, it seems to me you don’t always get the full meaning. You certainly don’t do the full quotes, which is kind of … misrepresenting. 'Nuff said ?
If you don’t want your arguments to be shot full of holes then maybe don’t start with the nonsense of alpha not being a demo, and build some solid arguments.
Is that the second or third time you mention “emotions” ? I forgot how many times I asked about “facts” (as opposed to speculation and phantasy), that would support any level of success for a beta sub addition, and the absence of negative effects from a beta sub.
You already admitted on several occasions that there could be negative consequences on the game as a whole from having a beta sub. For me that’s enough reason to thank the creative person that brought it up, and then kindly help bury the idea.
I’ve been away for a few days, so where did this thread end-up? Are we still on Alpha+, Omega light?
It seems to me that a (cheaper) Beta (aka: Omega light) subscription would need to exclude capital ships - including freighters and some industrials.
And as much as players may not like to admit it, you’d need some incentive between Alpha and Beta - like excluding battleships and Pirate faction ships from Alphas.
Theory / hypothesis / thesis / premise / concept / argument / pedantic much? It’s not like I’m writing a research paper here. And I think there’s plenty of facts presented to warrant a test of sorts by CCP. If you can’t understand them, then don’t blame me for your poor reading comprehension.
Yes, CCP should be collecting new data. My assumption is they are, but I really can’t prove that.
I’ve included as much as is available. And it’s not like you’ve provided very much in your attempted counterpoints, so you don’t have much of a leg to stand on in this matter.
I did quote the “long term”
See?
I’m not going to quote your entire post. Not only is it something you don’t even do yourself, despite demanding it of me, it would be unnecessary from the standpoint of clarity.
It’s irrelevant anyway. Bringing out the data from steam was to show that CCP markets the game as a “free 2 play” game, which is generally off topic part of this conversation anyway, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to derail it in that direction.
… I responded to your question with 3 paragraphs, and you respond by quoting the first introductory paragraph and claim it doesn’t answer your question? Really?
And then you go onto try to debunk my comments by mentioning the beta sub option in relation to your previous question? Really? Your previous question was purely about steam, I answered those questions. What’s with the moving goal posts?
No, it’s irrelevant, because the reason I brought up the steam stuff had to do with the “free to play” marketing conversation.
You can’t just grab something I said out of context, pretend I’m supporting some position with those words, and then try to debunk them with some random drivel you think is clever. Well maybe you can, because you did, but it doesn’t make your argument stronger.
That said I will reply to the particular statement you made.
There’s also zero evidence to suggest it wouldn’t increase revenue, PCU or long term subscriptions. That’s the thing, we don’t have the data. Which is why CCP should run the tests.
This is incorrect. It’s 4 years of an average 50k PCU. The “peak” in PCU refers to a daily peak. It was 6 instances of 55k+ peaks, each averaging around a month. The actual peaks during this time were over 60k.
That’s entirely missing the point of the comment in the first place.
CCP, as a business would like to make the most possible money that they can. The player base, as a general rule, would like more people in space at any given moment.
More players in space not only directly adds to CCP gaining more money, but it also indirectly adds more money by drawing in more players (this is based on the scientific principals behind why people gather together in groups.)
So in effect, PCU is an indicator of the health of the game, and an indicator of how much money CCP is making (at least before alphas came on the scene.) It may be incomplete, but it is an indicator.
Despite your claim that facts are all important, I love how you hand wave away the actual facts presented like they don’t matter.
CCP advertises total server numbers, not subscribing server numbers. So yes, it has merit.
People still do it. Sane or not, people have their reasons.
But regardless, you’re mis-representing the comment.
The plex sales in question is money a player bought, placed on the market, and then bought by alphas to plex their account. This turns an alpha player into an omega. And yes, this is money alphas are earning CCP, because if there was no buyer, the seller wouldn’t have bought the plex in the first place.
You really think this is uncommon? This is the primary reason plex cost 5mil per unit. Or roughly 2.5 billion for an omega sub.
You don’t have to do it “as an alpha” every month. You do it once as an alpha, and then continually as an omega before your sub expires.
I don’t disagree with you about it being a job, I hated it when prices were only 250-500mil for the sub and decided to stop doing it. The last time I plexed my account might have been when the price was just under a billion, and paid it off by running incursions as a logi pilot.
But just because I hated it, and refuse to get omega in that way going forward (I’d rather sell plex for isk at this point) doesn’t mean other people feel the same way. Some people just do pve for fun, and the isk is a byproduct of that. Or they make billions playing the market every month.
False equivocation. Try again.
I mean, the last “full quote” you were complaining about, I actually did quote in full. But even when I don’t quote you in full, I still respond respond to the idea you’re trying to push.
Citation needed.
I supported that argument with facts and logic. If you’re incapable of understanding simple logic, that’s on you, not me.
Yes, your language is full of emotional underpinnings.
And I gave you facts, which you handwaved away, because reasons. Maybe your emotional instability?
The reason why there isn’t more in the way of facts, is because that data isn’t available to the public, near as I can tell anyway. You throwing a temper tantrum that I’m not able to provide those inaccessible facts isn’t helpful.
I provided evidence of declining subscriber numbers from the 4 year average of 50k pcu to the 30k right before alphas were introduced. (The decline was roughly over the course of 3 years.)
CCP introduced alpha clones to their monetization strategy.
CCP hasn’t removed alpha clones (which suggests they were a financially viable part of the overall strategy.)
Players have claimed they were going to subscribe to omega, but didn’t due to it costing too much.
The pcu declined by 5k from fanfest of 2022 until uprising restored the pcu to it’s previous numbers.
All this together shows not only that CCP has a willingness to play with their monetization strategy, but that the increase in price did remove a sub section of the player base from playing. That isn’t hard evidence of actual subscriber numbers, but it is an indicator.
Furthermore, even if all 5k lost were subscribers, and the rise in subscription covered the loss of those subscribers, that still means there’s a price point there that the 5k is comfortable with.
This is an impossible standard. No matter what CCP does, there will be potential negative consequences. If we did nothing, in fear of consequences, we’d never leave our house and be in perpetual terror over the possibility of a house fire.
Now that doesn’t mean that the OP’s standard for the beta clone would be the standard CCP would use. There’s no doubt that some Omegas would see the cost of the Beta clone and figure they can live with the reduced effectiveness, but there’s bound to be a sweet spot.
This is why tests should be run, and data collected.
CCP seemed to have threaded that sweet spot with their subscription price increase. I’m sure they have the capability to do the same with a beta clone.
Yes, because I’m trying to have an honest representation of the facts at hand, and you can’t overcome challenges unless you recognize they exist.
Sure, bury your head in the sand because it’s hard. That’s a great way to run a business. You don’t achieve great things by running away from challenges.
The op seems to support that, though probably not the industrials. He didn’t say anything about freighters, but they are caps, so they’d probably not be accessible by betas either.
The op wanted Beta to have access to t2 and t3 ships, that’s enough of an incentive.
I’m ok with removing battleships and battlecruisers from alpha, if CCP were to allow alphas to train t1 frigs, destroyers, and cruisers to 5 plus all their relevant support skills. And if CCP did that, removing pirate ships would probably be a fair choice as well. Although that would probably need to accompany pirate specific skills to fly those ships (I’m fairly certain CCP bans skills from Alpha, not the ships or modules themselves.)
There’s not much point in charging more than x amount for an Omega (etc.) subscription, since all the capital pilots can pretty much PLEX their monthly subscription.
Alphas would need to lose some functionality (battlecruisers, battleships; T1 only); Betas could have any non-capital (battlecruisers, battleships, no capitals; Pirate, T2 and T3). Omegas could remain as is.
That basically falls in line with what the op suggested. Though, the op also put in other restrictions for beta as well. (sp cap + industry & pi restrictions.)
The one thing that stands out to me in your increasingly long replies is that, despite the fact that even you admit that there are negative consequences to a beta sub for the game and its users, you would still press on with it because “You don’t achieve great things by running away from challenges”.
My dear sir. Jumping from a height blindfolded is not a “challenge”, but there are plenty of adverbs to describe the action. “Great” is not among them, so don’t pat yourself on the back too much while on that ledge.
You want to introduce more inequality in a game that needs to preserve a level playing field ? Nah. Bad idea, however much you discuss it. For those who cannot afford to pay full price there are cheaper options if they wish to get EvE time: stay alpha (free !), try to plex, or get the weekend passes. Betas as such have zero merit. Hands off.
But do go ahead with discussing the finer points of your “beta” restrictions. It’s amusing.
