Allow alphas to train select omega skills with PLEX

(Zymex) #1

Let’s see how many Omegas will be triggered by this post. But think about it.

Fact is times are changing. Players get older, not enough time to commit to MMOs. The younger demographic grew up in an ”everything free” society which makes them less likely to subscribe. These young people rather grind for the money.

I am a filthy casual these days. I don’t have 5-10 hours per day to commit. And I can’t justify subbing when my time commitment is not there. Some months I barely play at all.

So my option is playing a gimped alpha character when I want to play instead of having the full experience when I log on.

Right now I am content locked from the things I want to do if I do not sub.

The idea is using PLEX to unlock omega skills and then train them. And keep them even if not subbed. This would benefit CCP in two ways.

  1. You can buy PLEX and unlock skills bringing in revenue directly
  2. Or grind ISK and buy from market and bringing revenue indirectly

It is essentially the same easy it works now. But as a casual player I can not sit and grind 5 hours per day for omega. And if I had that time to play I would just sub anyway.

It also allows me to improve my character at my time schedule and decide when I want to buy more skills.

This setup would allow alphas to be a hybrid between alphas and omegas.

Either paying with time grinding or with money when you see fit.

Subbing still gives you benefits such as faster skill training amongst other things.

(The Dunning Kruger) #2

This would be abused in hilariously obvious ways.

I’m not going to bother pointing them out.

(Arthur Aihaken) #3

I guess I’d have to understand more on how the mechanics for this proposed idea would work before commenting. Would it be xx number of PLEX per skill, and if so - how would you determine what each skill is worth?

I can think of a number of ways this could be abused, so what would be the advantage of actually then upgrading to Omega status?

(Zymex) #4

You buy skill points. Kinda like you can now for alphas but also for the omega skills.

This obviously needs certain gameplay changes to happen.

(Arthur Aihaken) #5

Yes, but only being Omega enables you to train and apply skill points to Omega skills. So you’re effectively talking about unlocking all Omega skills for Alpha characters.

(Johnny Boggart) #6

No matter if you have time or not to play, you can buy your Omega and train skills while unlogged… No need to really play to get more skills…

If I understand you well, you want to unlock skills with PLEX, train them and still keep them forever while remaining alpha…

So what would be the point to keep paying for omega? When I pay my omega subscription each month, not only I pay to unlock new skills not available for alpha accounts but I also pay for the right to keep them, as those skills won’t be available to me anymore if I downgrade to alpha…

In your setup, nobody will ever buy an omega subscription anymore…

(Zymex) #7

The point of being omega is faster skill train and cheaper skill training long term.

The alpha would need to buy more PLEX in total and train for longer. Since you buy skill points while being omega you already have unlimited skill points.

Omega is like a training boost and does not limit yourself. Like seen in other F2P games. Plus you can also train multiple characters.

It is being said CCP makes more money of PLEX than subscriptions as is right now.

(Arthur Aihaken) #8

I haven’t read anything compelling for this. No.

(Solonius Rex) #9

I dont get it.

So, im an Omega. I have a bunch of skills that only an Omega can use. They are already trained.

For example, i have Minmattar Carrier level 5.

If i revert to Alpha, what will happen to my skills? Will I need to pay Plex to have access to Minmattar Carrier 5, and how would that work? Because I already skilled for it, it would be unfair of me to have to pay for the same amount of Plex, when i already paid for a subscription and spent the 2 months training for it, dont you agree? In essence, I already paid for my skill, and now i need to pay plex to access my skill as an alpha.

Furthermore, if i wanted this toon to purely be a carrier ratting toon, all i would have to do is skill for my carrier skills and leave it as Alpha, correct? And then I would have free reign to rat and rake in billions of isk, receiving all of the benefits of an Omega without actually having to pay every month. I would be on par with an omega character, while not being an omega character.

Youve completely removed the incentive of being omega. Why should i pay every month when i could just use plex to unlock the skills i need?

(Jacqueline Symvane) #10

Is funny to see you do that little pre-emptive protective measure of calling out triggered omegas as if that would magically make your idea any less stupid and then present a stupid idea.

So here’s my subjective opinion as a casual-yet-triple-Omega player:

Your idea sucks.

Judging from the other posts, the discussion is so lacking, I don’t even want to bother providing objective arguments.

(Dark Engraver) #11

Nope idea is bad sorry,however this is not to say CCP won’t bring along maybe beta gamma etc clones eventually

(Zymex) #12

You keep the carrier level 5, the skills you trained and you can use your carrier.

You wouldn’t be on par with an omega, rather a buffed alpha.

Are you saying you would stop improving your character once you can carrier rat? There are years of skills worth training.

As an Omega you ALWAYS improve your character if your sub is active. As an alpha you need ISK and PLEX to progress. Which means that if you are skillcapped you are NOT TRAINING! unless you have bought more skill points.

Like I said, being Omega gives you 2x training speed plus it is CHEAPER in PLEX because you need to BUY skill points. The problem with Omega is you have to either pay monthly or grind every month to reach the billion ISK to renew it. If you don’t you have to revert back to alpha state and play your gimped character. My system allows one to improve a skill, when I feel like it. If it takes me 2 months to grind 1 billion ISK for example and spend that on select skills.

The exact math is up to CCP to figure out.

As the alpha you spend ISK to buy skill points, you don’t do that with omega.

You understand that every time you buy PLEX on the market place and use it, CCP makes money right? It is not just subscriptions that bring in revenue. CCP would make MORE MONEY PER PLEX from someone buying select skills instead of subscribing.

Also you can’t be logged into multiple characters as alpha. There are a lot of benefits of Omega still.

Let me list them again:

  • Multi char training
  • Faster training
  • Multiple logged in characters
  • Longer skill queues
  • No alpha tax
  • Cheaper skills (since you don’t buy skill points)

Another positive aspect of this system is alpha players still being able to play the game and progress their character after skill cap without being omega. Which means more players + more active economy.

Right now the only choice is to go omega or stop playing the game once you are skill capped. Or play a gimped character but it gets old fast.

(QuakeGod) #13

I’ve said this a hundred times before on this forum, but it’s worth repeating. If you can’t afford $15 for a monthly Omega subscription, then there are probably other things you should be doing with your life than playing video games…

(Solonius Rex) #14

Yes, thats exactly what im saying.

If i have a rorqual alt, im not going to train it into something else. Its an alt i use for mining, nothing more, nothing else.

And thats the thing. We tell new players not to skill for everything under the sun, because its a waste of time creating a character that can do everything. Being a jack of all trades, means you are a master at none. We dont tell them to skill for all 4 races of frigates, for all 4 races of cruisers. We tell them to choose one and stick with it. There are better things to train for, that they could use their time on.

Your system also removes the incentive of Omega, while giving all the benefits of an Omega.

My rorqual alt just wants to mine. Im not going to make him into a carrier or dreadnought alt. I dont need to max out Hedbergite Processing to 5. There is no incentive for me to pay for my rorqual alt, if i could just put down a one-time-fee of plex and have him able to mine all day with 100% profit. No incentive at all. Just mine, and profit.

(Charles Cuthbert) #15

I disagree, Free is free and pay is pay.
You want to REALLY impact the game? You want to REALLY bring in new blood? Cut the train time on everything by 70%. Still gonna take years to train everything. Still going to have to have Omega to train skills above the level of professional PvP target. Still going to need isk and plex. But Im 3 months in and questioning the output of cash for the amount of game Im getting as whether or not my interest will last long enough to BE effective because of how long the skills take to train.

MUCH better solution with the ADHD crowd. Im 55, and on disability and game because it is(or used to be) less expensive than the cost of all of the equipment and materials needed to buy in order to make lawn furniture no one wants to buy. But Im questioning the value of my time with the length of time it takes to git gud bro

(QuakeGod) #16

Again, EVE isn’t the game for you…

(Charles Cuthbert) #17

Helpful input.

this game has been around for 15 years… if you want new people in, things gotta speed up.

(QuakeGod) #18

You want to speed things up, then use injectors like everyone else…

(Solonius Rex) #19

Well, no.

The time it takes to Git Gud Bro, has nothing to do with the amount of skillpoints you have. You can purchase a 200 million skillpoint character from the character bazaar, and you would still suck at this game.

What you, and a lot of new players fail to realize, is that the ability to impact the game and be good, has nothing to do with the amount of skillpoints or the cost of your ship.

I have around 100 million skillpoints. My alts have varying skillpoints form 60 to 90 million. Guess what i usually fly in fleets? A caracal. A tech 1 ship. Something an alpha player can fly.

And if you have ADHD, and cant wait, then okay. Go buy skill injectors, a 5 billion isk blinged-out ship, and lose it on jita undock because you accepted a duel against a frigate.

(Khanid Voltar) #20

First of all, please do not pre-empt your argument that people who disagree will do so for the set reasons you outline, it is an extremely poor way of making your point. If you have a point to make then make it well instead making assumptions about anyone who might disagree with you.

I don’t disagree that some version of this will be the way the game goes eventually. However, a better version IMO would be to allow the skills to be trained as you have outlined it would be some sort of finite plex license to use say, capital ships, T2 ships, T3 ships. But that is simply a micro version of what we have now, not a sea-change as you represent it.

The premise behind your argument seems to be that no player will ever ‘max out’ their character. But as @Solonius_Rex points out, if you just need an alt to do a specific thing e.g. be a fleet PVP pilot, Rorqual mine, be a cyno alt, be a cap pilot the cap of applicable skills goes right down. As you outline it, people could easily have 10 different alts one for each thing (as they can already) but never need to pay anything for it. Yes that adds numbers to the game and boosts the ingame economy BUT it also would detract significantly from CCP’s income, which would reduce the amount of money they can spend on the game accordingly.

Another point is that, as you say it, no-one could ever really max out their char because there are ‘years of skills to train.’ Consider myself, as a 12 year vet with 250m sp (and there are a number with more sp than me), my long term skill plan (all 4 races mastery V everything excl. industry/mining) is only 2-3 years from fruition. What need would I have to pay for the game any more if your plan was implemented after 2-3 years? What would happen to the game then as those who pay for the game suddenly no longer need to pay for it simply to let those who do not want to pay for it, play it for free? I think it is fairly obvious, that there would suddenly be no game to play for either omega or alphas and CCP would go bust.

As I say, I do not disagree that some version of this will be the way the game eventually goes; I think it is a shame that CCP did not make sub-cap T1 alpha free to play excl. niche roles such as mining and cyno alts, and then have a T2 or T3 plex license to use such ships and weapon types for alphas. That would have worked even better a few years ago before they balanced all T1 ships as well so suddenly they were a viable choice to using instead of a T2 ship. But that could work I guess.

I have seen ideas such as yours before whereby an alpha pays a set price to use, for example, HACs. But at what price would an alpha find that acceptable? 3 months subscription to use HACs in perpetuity? I just don’t see the people who you claim to represent being prepared to shell out $45 if you are not even now prepared to shell out $15 a month for that same privilege.

If the game was to start now then I guess a version of what you are saying would be the model by which CCP operates. But since the game has already been operating for 15 years, the problem for CCP is how to change the game into that model without its existing revenue stream suddenly realising they dont need to pay any more. As you outline it, your idea simply does not make good business sense.

So it is a solid no from me, and not simply because I am an Omega, but because I want to still be able to play this game in 5, 10, 15 years hence, and not just look at the good times I have had as a fond memory.