I have no need to use help with moving my stuff, I’ll fly a Bestower right through null, low, then high sec with no fear of being ganked. (Alt scout FTW)
I don’t care about actually moving stuff, only killing gankers who think they are going to make a quick buck.
Without a large support fleet.
Holding out long enough for a support fleet further away than normal.
Creating more risk for gankers.
I’m not opposed, but a new hull or series of hulls isn’t the answer.
Information Control is.
You can tie it to a specific hull if you want, but that has problems that render the whole idea very problematic, as previously discussed.
Also, alt scout is using help. Just because you control both accounts doesn’t make it a solo endeavor.
Part of the issue is you want one ship that can reliably defeat a group of players. That’s not going to be balanced. If you want to engage a group, get a group.
You don’t out brute force them, you out think them… meaning you need to have more control over what they think they know, not more and bigger toys because that just means they will bring them too.
If you fit a hauler with a special modual, you eliminate a slot it can use to fit tank.
Thus, stripping the current sub systems and replacing them with larger and more capable ones is how you allow for an extra slot, but why bother with the slot when you can have a ship that is purpose built for it’s roll?
An armored car is not an armored car, just because you changed the tires to run flats and added a few steel plates in the doors and replace the windows with plexyglass to make them more shatter resistant, then added a turbo to the engine. (Moduals)
An armored car is stripped to the frame, then rebuilt from the frame up, adding frame rods and spring steel to mantain shape after taking a hit, upgrading every aspect, replacing the engine with a bigger and more powerful one, form fitted steel panels and heavy duty hinges to match the internal curves and preserve functionality of the doors, Bullet resistant glass is installed (Which prevents the window being opened as it is built into the car), to actually offer serious protection. Run flats with self sealing and reinflation pneumatic’s, Self sealing gas tanks and fuel lines are installed, the suspension is improved to deal with all the extra mass, the transmission is upgraded to deal with the extra torque the drive shaft is replaced with a stronger one, interior panels are backed with Kevlar to provide protection from spalling and more!
The end result is a vehicle you can’t tell is armored from the outside, so when it is attacked, Surprise is on the side of the defenders.
Leveling the playing field and buying time for the cavalry to come.
There is a BIG difference between a vehicle with stop gap measures put in place and one that is properly overhauled and refurbished for going into the dangers of combat.
Using moduals is not the answer.
A new ship, that sacrifices cargo space for better sub systems is the answer.
Like having a lead lined hull, to stop scanners being able to penetrate it’s hull and see what is underneath, preventing the quagmire of how do you jam something and give it false readings at the same time?
It can not see inside the ship to begin with so all the ships subsystems have to do is put out a decoy signal to produce a false return.
Seeing a lone freighter in low sec =» hey guys we got a noob =» immediately get blown up because the freighter is modified Q-ship in disguise.
Seeing another lone freighter in low sec =» nah nah, that’s a bait.
People doesn’t like fun and challenge I guess.
OP idea is idea, that has potential and need tuning, but you guys seem to dismiss it like you don’t want to contribute to it.
^^ That
Anything can be bait with the right setup and fleet support.
how about baiting solo? It’s always come down to fleet work isn’t it?
Anything can be bait with the right setup and fleet support. Not everything can be bait with no fleet support. How do you intend to kill them with no weapons?
What the point of making a Q ships with no weapon? What are you smoking?
Baiting solo: I’m flying an indy in low sec afk, oh no, what a (no cargo, full tank, ammo for days, scramble, web, disrupt) weak ship I am.
Could you restate that comment please?
I’m not sure I follow.
I believe @MinerArt is making the point that bating solo in a Q-ship is not going to work that well in the long run. Bait is usually something that looks squishy, but isn’t and either fits a cyno and/or some points to hold people until the cavalry arrives…the Q-ship kind of breaks this meta. Instead of jumping in with a bait ship and grabbing what I can and hoping to survive, I jump in and WTFBBQ the gate campers all by my lonesome. It works a few times then the word spreads and then a “freighter” jumping into LS is not immediately attacked, instead it is burnt down with 5 dreads, 2 fax, and 3 carriers. If it turns out to be an actual freighter…no worries it is still burnt down. If it is a Q-ship it is either burnt down or does nothing other than busting the camp as long as it is on grid.
I proceed on the basis that you still intend this ship to be used in High Sec.
If so, you can’t give it a freighter, or better than, tank and then add enough weapons to destroy a gank squad. We go right back to just allowing capital combat ships in high sec at that point.
If we are talking about busting up gankers in low sec, then Information Control is still what you need. You don’t have to sacrifice a tank slot on a freighter, you could instead fit a disguise to a Mothership fully tanked and ready to spew fighters that isn’t going down easily or quickly to a small stack of ABCs.
As I said, sure, you can tie this ability to new hulls if you want, but hulls with the combat power you want are already in game and balanced appropriately. All you need is a way to make them look like tempting targets and not dangerous at all.
But if all you want to ask for is a WTFBBQ ship that happens to look like a freighter and lies to the overview… it’s broken. It’s overkill to the point of useless in highsec. CONCORD is all the guns you need there. In other areas of space you can already get in a capital ship if you want, and I have little faith that anyone will be fooled by this.
I’m all for the idea. I’d love a way to get people dedicated to crushing gate camps on a regular basis, and it’s really too bad the game has no way to reward that sort of behavior. But giving them an OP ship will just further empower those you want to see brought down a peg.
If CCP do not wish to create mobile decoys or fake ship hulls, a passive module that confuses cargo and ship scans would be a start.
If the intent is to brick tank something, the options for a freighter are limited ( 25,000 mm plates don’t fit, there no grid/cpu for anything other than bulkheads ) and a simple ship scan can is all that is needed for the gank-o-matic spreadsheet to look up how many talos/catalysts are needed.
Thanks to sites like zkillboard its very hard for there to be much variance in the outcome of an engagement. Before the first shot is fired its likely that the aggressor has done their research and proceeds with a high degree of confidence, knowing the risk/reward is in their favour.
This would be one portion of a design goal, yes.
The number of jump freighters dying in lonetrek on the way to Jita is astounding. The Q-Ship introduces the variance, the unknown element that is even more important now that citadel tethering is no longer instantaneous. Freighters and Jump Freighters are good candidates because they are presently the weakest in terms of fitting options.
Gankers and Trade Hub campers that never undock, null security gate camps, there will be so many places this can be used to cause disruption to the presently stagnant meta.
One ship that is not as it appears, that can survive long enough once the trap is sprung that either hostile losses are greater than anticipated ( due to the tank being higher than expected, fighting back, support fleet arrival ) or the reward ( the contents of said ship or cargo scans not representative of contents.
This will be dismissed as a feature already available on a blockade runner.
Yes, this.
Every time a unknown Tengu, Loki, proteus or Legion is sighted the question is asked, is it a covert dropper? Regular dropper? How much does it drop? Get safe, or fight?
It is the uncertainty that is feared, the destabilisation of the status quo and exactly what is needed to drive change.
Anything can be bait, but a world where ships that are ostensibly never bait is somewhat more dangerous. A group taking on a freighter knows it has no mids, no highs. If local is empty but for purple and the target it is too easy to disengage ( no points, no cyno ) before support arrives.
Yes, along these lines is a path of interest ( Fake Cargo Ship/Fake Cargo Module ) for implementing a Q-Ship like mechanic.
No ship should be a ‘I win’ button ship. That is not the intent.
No, this isn’t what is being suggested, though assault frigates and assault cruisers are examples of an extreme tank already existing in the game and there does not seem to have broken much, other that the long drought of these two classes being out of favour.
For those reading who have not looked up the history of a Q-Ship please do so. For the rest, a short history lesson. The Q-Ship’s method of operation was to ply the trade routes, be found by an enemy submarine, which following naval customs, would surface and tell the Q-Ship to surrender in the belief it was a regular merchant vessel, so that the crew’s lives would be spared and the merchant cargo ( which is the actual target of the aggression ) could be destroyed. On the surface a submarine was much more vulnerable and the Q-Ship would take advantage of this nicety to shoot at the surfaced submarine. The guns on a Q-Ship wouldn’t have been much use against much else, but they were enough for the intended purpose.
I would like to point out that this ship would not actually counter anything. The title should be:
“Introduction of the Q-ship to bait raiders.”
Has a complete different meaning and actually hits the point of the ship.
Advice taken and implemented. 
Thank you.
But the thing is that real bait is a real trojan horse. With the Q-ship it is blatant what it is. A freighter jumping into LS or NS from HS is a very, very rare occurrence. Right now seeing one it is obvious it is not bait. Seeing one after this change the probability it is bait is damn close to 1.
And no ship in game should WTFBBQ a 30 man gank fleet or even part of that fleet. If you are putting that much in assets at risk…get your own 30 man fleet.
You are very welcome, my friend. Maybe you accept another suggestion of mine:
Split your idea in parts. A ship is a rather big thing both regarding development in the game and developing of the idea itself. It has way too many things to consider. Instead, concentrate on what is the actual goal, and not on the tool you believe should be available to achieve that goal. When you give the goal priority, the tools are a consequence of you thinking about how to achieve the goal.
Example: The goal is to bait gankers into attacking.
One possible solution: A module faking expensive cargo.
And with that you move on. Within context, you will come up with more ways of baiting, and you can post them all seperately for people to rip apart discuss. This also makes it much easier for the developers too, and allows them time to implement one after another, instead of having one big thing to work on.
This will increase your chances for success dramatically.
Good Luck. o7
I doubt any ship I am conceiving other than the largest of the large Q-ship (Freighter variant equipped with all bombs in null taking on an all frigs gank.) could WTFBBQ a 30 man gank fleet.
and that would be one hell of a lucky shot.
If I recall bombs are not allowed in high sec or low sec.
+1 To this.