I’ve been around EVE for a long time, and I still love the game — but in the last 5–7 years it feels less and less like a sandbox and more like a heavily manipulated environment.
EVE used to be about long-term thinking, about making choices and living with them. You could invest years into a plan and trust that, while the game might evolve, your investment of time and SP would largely remain valid. Lately, though, it feels like every time I commit to something, CCP moves the goalposts. The constant nerfing doesn’t just make things harder — it erodes the very sandbox feeling that drew me (and a lot of us) in.
Here are just a few examples from my own experience:
Trained into a Rorqual → nerfed.
Invested months if not a year into carriers, dreads, supers, and T2 fighters → nerfed.
Maxed out resistances → nerfed (only recently partly reverted).
Skilled up multiple characters for gas huffing → nerfed shortly after.
Got all Triglavian ships and weapons to L5 on three characters → nerfed shortly after.
Invested heavily in missile and ship skills → missile range nerfed.
Maxed out exploration on three characters → loot floods tanked the market.
In wormholes it’s even worse: I built a 90m SP explorer over a span of 2-3 years, only to see saved salvage drop by 30%+ in value almost overnight due ot this floading of the market.
Built a dedicated trade alt → nerfed with increased taxes.
And I know I’m forgetting others.
The point is: I’m still doing fine, but it feels like going backwards. Not because of player-driven competition, but because of developer-driven tinkering. That undermines what made EVE unique.
The sandbox isn’t supposed to punish you for long-term commitment – but lately, at least for a couple of years now – that’s exactly what it feels like.
EvE’s s’alright. If one thing ain’t working out for ya, go do something else. It’s a sandbox - an evolving and changing sandbox but it is still one none the less.
I mean, what do you want to see instead? No changes and additions over the span of multiple years?
You could argue, that in your case, you are having some bad luck. But equally, other players could have benefitted greatly from the changes made.
And also, a nerf doesn’t mean that you are forbidden from using it. So all your investment isn’t wasted. If you really want to fly a rorqual or use missiles, you can still do that. Perhaps not as gloriously as before the nerf, but still doable.
Otherwise, I don’t know what else you want to discuss.
While you or others may or may not experience it as an issue. I do, enough to write a post about it on the forum. Over the years I played Eve with many people and real life friends and almost all of them quitte because of one of the above reasons. Those where all omega players with at least two paid accounts. So while yo might disagree I know many personally that do, most of which ran at least two paid omega accounts.
I agree….but I really don’t think nerfs and buffs constitute the bulk of that. Rather, it is the endless ‘events’ and PvE shenanigans that undermine the ‘sandbox’. Instead of PvE funnelling people into PvP, which I’m sure I’ve seen CCP state is its purpose, it has become a raison d’être entirely of its own and swathes of people log in ONLY for PvE. Indeed, large numbers of people seem to log in only for ‘events’.
That is the complete opposite of a ‘sandbox’. This ‘ giant open universe where you are free to do what you like ‘…as the advert loves to tell us…feels increasingly scripted.
I couldn’t agree more… This is the BS that has me POed with the “ownership” of this game… About 6 years ago, I had spent billions cornering rare skin markets only to have my investments totally destroyed when they started gouging the skins away from being player rewards and monetizing them in the store… Unfortunately, all they care about is how they can squeeze and manipulate the game for more money… I quit the game 5 years ago because of this greedy crap, just came back about 3 months ago, and I’m already getting POed with what these greedy assclowns are doing to the game all over again… Not worth paying a subscription just to be angry with how this game is being manipulated out of pure greed… The game desperately needs new ownership who will give the game back to the players…
Ok. So…as I am understanding it… and correct me if I am wrong… you’re saying that the developers are punishing you for engaging in long term thinking. You’re describing that the developers are railroading players into following a certain meta via means of balancing.
I am simply not convinced that this is true or an issue. You engaged in virtually every activity available in EVE Online, from what you described. You can still do any of these things and fly any of your ships if you wanted to. How is this a “controlled environment”?
What irks me, genuinely, is that you are describing, in my opinion, very benign, highly specific examples for your proof of developer interference. A missile range nerf, honestly? And what else, a resistance nerf? Within a span of 7 years??
What are your expectations of the developer team??? If these examples above are crossing the line, what else are they allowed to do then? Nothing? Haha.
No, really, what do you expect of the developer team? In the perfect world, what do you want to see happen instead?
Are you assuming that a sandbox cannot have nerfs?
A well maintained game, sandbox and otherwise, has balance patches to ensure a wide variety of strategies is valid, rather than just a few. Additions of new content, buffs of less used options and nerfs of overperforming strategies too will make the game more fun as we get more sand to play with.
A sandbox with a hundred tools of which only three tools are worth using isn’t very varied or fun after all.
Nerfs are part of a good sandbox game.
Now an old gaming lesson: if you happen to always get hit by the latest nerfs, try to not chase the last flavor of the month gameplay. Be original for once.
To “punish” would mean, that CCP would care the slightest for what you are doing. They are not, you are not that important. They see a balance issue, they try to “fix” it with a change.
“Sandbox” doesn’t mean you can make a plan and nothing changes for all eternity. “Sandbox” only means, you can basically do what you want within the borders the sandbox sets. And sometimes, those borders change. You can still do what you wish if you fulfill the requirements. Nobody forces you to do anything specific. You could be a “pirate”, or “mercenary” or “industrial tycoon” at any time, CCP would not stop you. Just adapt to the environment as it changes and follow your idea.
What i hate most in recent years was the introduction of specific ships for specific tasks and roles.
You used to had to find out yourself which ship could fit which purpose with which fitting. Nowadays everything is categorized and fitting of modules is restricted to the ship that should fulfill that role. The generalized cargohold has gone away and now you need to use specific ships with certain cargohold types for ore or for PI materials and whatnot. Lately you even have restrictions which ships can fit a cyno and there are many more similar things.
For me, this indeed took away the aspect of the sandbox to some extent. It felt as if i was in control to do with the stuff given. I had to think and figure it out. If it worked, it was ok and could always possibly be improved. Nowadays you are locked into predefined hulls for purposes defined by the developers and not the players anymore.
The nerfs mentioned are some examples of how the economy is being manipulated. There are much more examples that didn’t affect me much for example the ore and belt changes. I understand it’s a question thats easy to derail but I’m just wondering if others find eve still a sandbox or not. As stated in the OP I’m still doing fine. I can do many things in Eve. But it does chew on the enthusiasm. At least it does for me.
It was always a sandbox that contained some set pieces.
It’s always been this way, ever since NPC mission agents.
The nerfs are a different issue, and some of them have annoyed me; I left many years ago and then came back in like 2019, and when I did I found the Vexor I was sitting in had been nerfed to buggery, so I went and found a different go-to ship. The world changes, the universe changes; Adapt.
The PVE stuff has always been optional. Being advertised something like an Event is not the same as being forced or funnelled into doing it unless you’re just very easily led. I’ll happily ignore most of the “Events” mainly because I don’t want to unknowingly ■■■■ up my standings with some faction and only realise it when I try to pass through the wrong system (i.e. Edencom).
“A sandbox game is a video game with a highly interactive, open-ended environment where players have significant freedom to explore, experiment, and create, often without predetermined goals or a fixed story . These games emphasize player autonomy and creativity, similar to a child playing in a physical sandbox, allowing for emergent gameplay as players set their own objectives and discover the possibilities within the game’s world.”
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but according to that definition, EVE quite fulfills the requirements of a Sanbox.
Also, I think some players confuse "Sandbox” with “Open-world” which often coexist but don’t necessarily exist in the same game.
It is controlled because although the range of permutations of fittings and activities is extensive, it is also limited. There is no sense in which I can develop an advantage that no other player has, or create something totally new and unheard of. A true sandbox is far more modular and allowing of ‘emergent’ behaviour.
Hmm. A sandbox in a virtual world like Second Life, you can create absolutely whatever you like using the basic raw materials, which are simple ‘prims’ conforming pretty much to Plato’s basic shapes. You can create stuff nobody has ever created before.
By contrast EVE is extremely limited and restricted. The range of fittings for a Tengu may be extensive, but you cannot create a unique Tengu that nobody else has and you cannot exceed certain prescribed parameters. Is is that lack of unique-ness ( except for rare ships derived from events ) that dulls the edge of the ‘sandbox’.
In the early days of EVE all hulls were the same in terms of fittings and you could fit anything on any ship and realize something that someone else might have not figured out yet. However you are right that anyone could replicate the fitting.
Then came the introduction of specialized modules and role-ships where you could only fit that module to the ship it is intended to. That limits the sandbox and predetermines fittings.
But CCP has introduced a new mechanic where indeed you can build a unique ship again that no one can replicate directly: Abyssal modules are modules that have been mutated with mutaplasmids. The result is that some of their stats have been increased or decreased. Abyssal modules have the same skill requirements as a T2 module regardless of the module’s skill requirements before the mutation.
It’s a step in the right direction, and indeed I have a few abyssal modules fitted. Whilst I understand why saved fittings blank out abyssal modules…its also a little annoying as you can effectively only see what the parameters are by actually being in that ship.
But yes…I’d like to see more of that sort of thing, ultimately allowing genuinely unique ships.
I’m also tending to agree more, over time, with those who argue that killboard should have an option for not displaying the fittings of lost ships.
I don’t think uniqueness of items and the presence of variety are required for a game to be sandbox. I think Choice is more important. EVE has plenty of choices. They are not infinite but they’re enough to feel that a ship’s fit could have been done differently to accomplish the same goal, even though sometimes the devs do restrict one thing or another.
