Is manufacturing profitable these days

Hi There,

Back after a break and was wondering if i can get my production lines up and running again.
I own a T2 blueprint with will get me some ISK, but the rest … meh, i dont know.
Looked up the numbers in EVE ISK per hour but it seems there is not much profit to be made.

Any advice from manufacturers out there?

Answer is, yes.

The only real profit made is the one made by EVE Online.

Play Satisfatory.

Very helpfull reply’s so far. Thank you both.

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In my experience lately, the short answer is no, not really

If you have an army of alts, access to upgraded, low indexed systems then you may be able to turn a small profit. But my personal opinion is that with the number of players in eve lower than a few years back that unless you are a whizz with spreadsheets and developing your own for the things you want to to that you could probably make more ISK doing other things.

I am an average player, I have no knowledge of creating spreadsheets to pull data to help me and whilst I have made small profits here and there it isn’t enough for me to commit to doing it enmasse.and I guess people that do make good money from it are not even going to give you breadcrumbs here

That is just my personal opinion/experience though

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you don’t need spreadsheets or an army of alts. A low or reasonable index system is required (at least a system without a totally insane index) but this is not hard to find even within a few jumps of Jita. There are plenty of free tools out there that replace 98-99% of spreadhseet magic so many industrialists claim are critical. evecookbook, fuzzworks, reactions.space and ravworks all come to mind.

many tech I items are not profitable at major HS trade hub prices but it has been that way for many years. you can possibly be profitable at some of the smaller regional trade hubs where there is less competition or in hek/ammamake where it is a seller’s market. Tech i items don’t need to be profitable all the time however, sometimes they are just a good way to consume excess materials like pyerite, megacyte or tritanium that commonly end up in excess. Or you make tech II or faction items out of them.

Sometimes items just won’t be profitable regardless of what they are. you solve that by paying attention to the market and it has absolutely nothing to do with alts, facilities, indexes or skill point levels. Holding out your open hand won’t earn you anything, you have to work for it.

I build with a single character with a handful of low skilled (slow) reaction slots on two alts that I seldom use unless I am building multiple productions of T2 battleships concurrently or a jump freighter. All production is done on a single character. I only use a reactions calculator spreadsheet that I use to track my progress on larger builds and otherwise use none. I don’t consider messing around in excel for days to earn an extra 2-3% to be a valid way of playing eve and I do industry maybe 2-3 days per week on average. I earn enough from that to nearly plex one account per month and Purchase around 2/3 of the raw materials for all my builds, typically at sell prices. I do ■■■■ in/■■■■ out accounting only.

I do this by not imposing what my ideas of what I want from the market are, but by taking what the market is offering. If rapiers have negative or nearly nonexistent margins, I don’t make rapiers. I sell nearly no T1 unless I need to consume some excess materials. If margins are good on golems but not vargurs, I make golems even though I am better setup to produce matari. If completed T2 parts are cheaper on the market than they are compared to their input materials, I buy the parts instead of producing them. There is no trick to industry, it is only producing what you can, for a market that has pricing available that is higher than the build costs.

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glad you#ve managed to work it out to your advantage @MalcomReynolds_Serenity, I could only comment to the OP based on my experience, which is obviously a million miles away from your experience. Everytime i’ve looks at building stuff, ships especially, i always find loses

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there are many ships that can only be produced at a loss on paper - actually even some T2. Maledictions and stilettos are particularly bad for that and a bunch of faction ships are cheaper to LP farm than they are to produce. Actually another good tool is eve isk per hour but I find it almost as disagreeable to work with as spreadsheets

As mentioned above the index is part of the secret. For some stuff (not all) it eats up the benefit from a rigged citadel setup, so you can be competitive in NPC stations of obscure systems nobody produces in. And system hopping is easy this way. Only drawback is longer production time, as you don’t get a bonus for it.

Another drawback is that you end up having 100s of B spread on those systems :cry:
Also when you change system, you have to wait for all your jobs to end to gather the BPs.

This. Be smart, means try to understand the complexity of the system without jumping to conclusions. What is good today, will be bad tomorrow, or not. Accept that what you built may be better kept for a later time.

1 – manufacturing bonuses (reductions in material needs and manufacture time) for NS and WH space mean that if you want to profit, you need to move your production to more “dangerous” areas of space. Note that LS also gets a manufacturing bonus, but it is much more at risk of being impounded due to structure bashing stuff.

2 – Manufacturing is a lot more complex now, and it takes a lot of manufacturing slots to do all of the tiers of intermediary components for the larger ships, and items that require MUCH more investment into manufacturing and research skills. If you have the research skills, T2 production is still very much viable, though you will spend about half of your manufacturing slots making intermediary materials (and the other half purchased and hauled from a trade hub).

It takes a fair bit more active management than before, which helps make those activities more profitable overall though the profit compared to effort has gone down a bit.

3 – as others have said, you can make better isk per item sold, though at a lower volume (generally), by leveraging smaller regional trade hubs. Generally the last HS next to a LS faction warfare hotspot, or next to a highsec->Nullsec gate. Alternatively, worm holes are quite lucrative as you will generally have options of both smaller and larger hubs, as RNG and bob’s grace allow, and with more relative safety compared to LS or NS if you are in a smaller corporation.

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That really is just not correct. you certainly can make profit in HS or LS, even manufacturing in NPC stations. Sometimes a lot of it with opportunities that are not available in null or wormholes. It just requires more awareness and effort monitoring the market

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Yes it is. You just have to have your niche and informatics in order. The rest is statistics and the degree you are willing to have a second job.

So it’s basically the same its been past 10 years, the mechanics have changed but the dynamics is the same.

The Meta is in informatics. Gut feeling helps a lot. For example this is today according to my personal informatics system™:

HAULERS AND INDUSTRIAL SHIPS
ADVANCED HAULERS
TRANSPORT SHIPS
item      profit    Δ5rm     pro%    market    breake    Δ5rm        vol    Δ5rm  |    30dprof    profdμ    prof      bemin    beμ      bemax    |    f5prof      f5Δvol    bpc
--------  --------  -------  ------  --------  --------  --------  -----  ------  ---  ---------  --------  --------  -------  -------  -------  ---  --------  --------  -----
Occator   +19,95m   +9,41m   12,1    185,10m   165,15m   +927,42k     56     -41  |    77%        12,93m    +7,16m    -5,68m   161,79m  +5,88m   |    +7,17m          55     14
Crane     +5,80m    +13,53m  5,2     117,00m   111,20m   -8,95m       38     -26  |    63%        3,21m     -860,83k  -5,05m   112,97m  +13,64m  |    -889,21k        37     10
Prowler   +5,69m    -4,52m   5,4     112,00m   106,31m   +777,75k    136       5  |    67%        14,70m    +8,83m    -7,69m   105,35m  +7,44m   |    +11,17m        -11      8
Viator    -668,96k  -1,60m   -0,6    106,40m   107,07m   +637,56k     93       2  |    73%        4,21m     +2,59m    -3,72m   104,99m  +3,84m   |    +5,35m          42     12
Bustard   -5,60m    +10,13m  -3,3    166,20m   171,80m   -13,01m      86     -28  |    20%        10,74m    -5,35m    -7,53m   173,74m  +20,36m  |    -5,07m          19     12
Mastodon  -6,72m    -4,80m   -4,1    156,20m   162,92m   +1,06m      129      -1  |    73%        8,95m     +5,46m    -11,46m  161,46m  +11,85m  |    +6,53m         -43     12
Prorator  -11,51m   -2,23m   -9,8    106,40m   117,91m   +1,39m       86      -9  |    17%        3,26m     -4,77m    -6,18m   114,68m  +5,18m   |    -4,49m         -13     14
Impel     -15,47m   -2,55m   -8,5    166,10m   181,57m   +2,09m       29     -19  |    7%         986,23k   -18,72m   -9,70m   176,27m  +8,05m   |    -18,84m         24     12

meanwhile some items have 50% margin. In BO. At Jita index…

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The market pvp has changed since the 0.01 isking and tax changes. Now days its not the work you put in but how you make some market sector look like, infuencing investors and manufacturers. I’m sure there are plenty of other tactics and a higher level of meta.
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I think I understand what you mean.

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And yes, the other guy is a bot who 's been playing for month already while reacting in the minute to order changes at any moment in the day.

I think he may be using a new account. Still the same exact behaviour.
And it has not changed since the 0.01 isking change. Literally the same behaviour, except now the minimum difference has changed and bots place new orders instead of modifying existing ones.
Be connected H24, cut all the offers that are aboive your average purchase price +6% . No-brainer.

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Proves again, a bot can do everything a human can do, just better. Will it follow you all the way down into non-profitability?

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nah, it stops at BO+6% or the like.

There’s no bonuses to specific security regions, with the exception of tax reduction for FW space. What you’re likely refering to are the bonuses on the efficiency rigs being dependend on the security zone of their citadel, but those rigs are quite pricy, and when combined properly, will make your structure attractive enough to industrialists that their activity in the structure will spike the system’s index to the point the input material efficiency rigs’ saving is compensated by the increased index fees. Once the index is up, you will end up paying more, as you also construct items not affected by the efficiency rigs.

Also, the rig based material efficiency is around 5% saving when maxed out (T2 large rig in carebearland). Compared to the 200% mining laser crystal or 150% damage control return of investment, that’s fairly insignificant, while adding a huge logistic effort with jump freighters or DST-ing for ages to get stuff to/from the market, or paying others to do that.

If you don’t have the research skill, manufacture isn’t viable anyways. Capital construction is just as income providing as it was before, as capitals used to be traded below their manufacturing price for ages, at least at Panfam where I was back in the day, they did.

How to make income selling below production input cost is easy: Recruit new players in highsec that are actually new players instead of just new alts, tell them of the great fortunes they can make in nullsec and have them come to your null. Because supply chains in null are poor, they will either have to contract your jump freighting service for supplies or buy at the prices stuff is being traded for in null, granting you with side channel income.
Now, there’s the moon in your space, it has R64, or maybe it has only R32, or maybe it’s just R4, doesn’t really matter actually. Of cause, in nullsec there’s no “mining permits” or “hull integrity certificates” or other CODE stuff, instead there are “moon mining fees”. If the miner mines it, he’ll be giving ore to the industrialist via taxes, at panfam it’s 20% for R64/R32 and 10% for the lower grades. The miners’ remaining 80% are a medium-to-low isk-density asset that needs to go to some market to be turned into isk, although the miner might be smart enough to notice that reprocessing the goo to moon materials increases isk-density (or reduces the m^3), facilizing the logistics… but he has to pay reprocessing fees, which are way higher than in empire space, to … guess who?

If the miner gives you the middle finger on the moon tax and goes mine the anomaly instead, he’ll still be left with a huge amount of minerals/ore that need to be brought to a market, but unlike moon ore, the anomaly ore can’t be reprocessed for isk-density improvement (unless the ore was uncompressed ore).

The miner can haul his materials/compressed ore to the null market and sell it there below highsec prices, or contract it to a (=your) jump freight logistics service at some alliance hub. In either case, the miner has to haul his assets to the alliance hub, at the odds of losing his ship and the cargo inside of it on his way, so you offer him a service: At 90% Jita BUY, you buy all his goo! Good offer, eh? You can then JF the ore to highsec and sell it at SELL prices, or you reprocess whatever you want w/o paying fees, since it’s your own station, and use your 90% jita BUY obtained minerals for your industry.

All that, of cause, while badmouthing Goonswarm Federation to be abusing new players as mining slaves.

Another new player decided his Hurricane’s Autocannons are superior income generators over his Covetor’s Strip Miners, and goes farm the NPCs… he - and via taxes that are automatically transfered, “the corporation” - gets some isk payed on the hand by CONCORD, and he - and the corps - gets some more after the ESS was ignored, but at some point he’ll notice the loot left in the wrecks. Especially belt rats (rather than anomaly ones) might leave just as much income in the loot as they payed out in the first place …
The loot, however, is just assets, so they need to be brought to a market to be cashed out, and as nullsec trade volumes for meta modules are non-existant, he has to get them to highsec… coincidentially your 90% ore buyback offer also applies for NPC modules, and there you are: You get all the minerals that were removed from nullsec by the resource redistribution patch, by reprocessing modules which you are provided for 90% jita BUY and can reproccess for free…

As the miners progress, they’ll fly fancier stuff and eventually make themselves an alt or two or three and a command ship alt enabling them to mine your goo while the rest of the corps is being inactive, and if everything progresses well, the miners will fly his own mining fleets and feed you with afk income forever (when things go wrong, the miner realizes the “tax to cover the fuel bill” story is a scam or questions whether he really has to pay taxes to SRP members of fleets kitchensank by incompetent FCs)

For the ratters, the number of alts “required” for efficient nullsec live is way lower than for the miners, but even then, people are being promoted to create themselves a “noctis alt”, instead of talking about bringing a second marauder/t3c/HAC/dread/carrier/whatever on grid and cleaning the sites at (nearly) twice the pace, as the noctis basically assures the loot is picked up (and sold to your 90% buyback), while the second marauder, instead, ultimately makes loot collection the MTU’s job, and neglected when no MTUs are available

Null production never had to compete with highsec input mineral trade prices. It competed to 80~90% Jita buy, price flattened by leaving your customers waiting and using side channel income like JF services you provide to your alliance. In the case of T2, way below that as the moon tax provides free ore to begin with.

Capital production also was the creme de la creme, not because it was so hard to do or anything, but because you can queue your blueprint and then score some 100 millions of income by logging in a week later again to hit “deliver”. Now with 10 queues … you can make more income than any of those noobs who farm the anoms with their droneboats to collect your buyback program goo, and you can make it without even logging into the game, that’s how pro you are.
With the 2021 update making capital production more interactive, it’s just not worth the “effort” any more. Marauder/HAC/Dictor/[…] Production has outyielded Carrier Production for ages to come … on accounts that login to reschedule their production queues once per day or two, but can you really log in all your toons every day or two? Is that even possible? There have been people building marauders back in capital glory days, too, but they’re who got looked down on by the “true industrialists”. Would I really reduce myself to their levels? Eve no longer “play”-able, time to unsub.

This isn’t manufacturing income. It’s income generated by using trade price variations between different markets, i.e. Arbitrage.

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I’ve played EVE since 2008 (altough I was on wee 4 year hiatus and returned nao) and this, sir, is never the case. There is always a cutoff point. My market tactics has partly developed as a counter to this kind of behavior.

You can see bot aspirants pretty fast and make a decision to abandon that particular item and just lick your wounds.

One market item just opened up. There are ofc many explanations for this but I hope its that CCP team who handles these guys. The informatics behind discovering this is not that hard and if when the aspirants get to mimic human behaviour perfectly (including those drunken mishaps when placing orders) I’m fine with that.

As Musk said, you just needed to do simple sanity check, in that case limiting tweets per day below a number what a speed typist on meth could humanly do in 24 hrs :joy: