Is there a reason I've never seen Legion Armor Logi fits?

(Saladinae) #1

I was watching some Lokis do shield logi in a blops fleet earlier. Made me wonder, why don’t we ever see Legions doing armor logi? They get 2 - 4 times the EHP of a guardian, are cap stable, and have 91% resists with links (also higher than guardian) and have an afterburner bonus and hardener overheat bonus.

The only factor I can see here is the sig radius of 170 vs guardian sig radius of 80.

[Legion, Invincile Armor Logi]

Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Reactive Armor Hardener
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
[Empty High slot]
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
[Empty High slot]
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
[Empty High slot]
Medium Ancillary Remote Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Remote Repair Augmentor II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Legion Offensive - Support Processor
Legion Core - Augmented Antimatter Reactor
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Propulsion - Wake Limiter

Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

Nanite Repair Paste x320
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Navy Cap Booster 800 x16
ECCM Script x1

(Oreb Wing) #2

Because logi gets primaried.

Can’t srp skill loss.

Price of subsystems.

No cap transfer bonuses.

(DrButterfly PHD) #3

Skill injectors.

(elitatwo) #4

You’re welcome!

(elitatwo) #5

…because they would be a 2 billion loot pinata. Fitting one is not a problem but flying them is. If you cannot press “A” + “FONE”, you will have a very hard time finding someone capable of piloting them.
Oh and that fit is bad, in the corner with you and feel bad for an hour.

(Quinlin Harpy) #6

Half the sig radius (This matters ALOT in big fleets)

Outputs ALOT more reps

Much much cheaper

Why spend silly amount of money on logi legions when triage is a thing?

Skill loss

Although your legion is ‘Cap stable’, 1 heavy neut caps it out

Guardians can take a hell of a lot of neuting pressure before capping out

Guardians can use a spare cap link to keep a friendly bhaalgorn capped up so he can continue neuting

Guardians can also use said cap link to feed cap to a friendly ship being primaried, so they can keep their hardeners on

Guardians get much better rep range, a guardian gets like 50km optimal range on reps whereas a legions optimal range ends at like 15km (Sure falloff on the legion is big but it is still reduced rep amount)

And more. The loki only really works in some fleets. For example if you have arty lokis, with logi lokis and loki links - in this type of fleet its hard to know which loki does what and the fits for the logi lokis are extremely good on cap and can actually output sufficient reps whilst not worrying about range because all the lokis anchor on the same person.

(Gian Bal) #7


(Saladinae) #8

K well said. Never seen them in blops drop though either.

(Oreb Wing) #9

Maybe someone can do the math for diminishing returns to skill inject 500k sp back into a pilot that has 150m+ sp.

Most srp directors would say, nope, ‘we can’t do that’. I guess there will always be a guy that says, Sure it is! You just don’t want to do it.

(Saladinae) #10

Perhaps we should advocate tor CCP to separate the Support Processor to Command Processor and Triage Processor.

Triage Processor would reduce Loki sig to 120 (50% more than Guard) let them reach 1km/s with AB and reduce high slots to 4.

Retain the capacitor weakness and still would not be able to fit large armor reps (like the guardian) and perhaps just slightly decrease cap use for armor reps by another 10%. There should be a viable PvP alternative to the Guardian

Onieros is too similar to the guard to be considered an alternative (and they’re not that bad in PvP vs guardian either, only problem is you need a cargo bay full of navy cap boosters). I’m looking for a ship that can be fielded reliably against Winmatar Arty alpha fleets.

(Oreb Wing) #11

Guards need to lose a high, imo. 2 gud.

Basi too. They should be forced to choose their role and not be great as a support ship that does it all.

(Gian Bal) #12

Well they’re supposed to be the go-to support ship. Because that is literally their role lol. Tech 3’s can do it but not as well, because Tech 3’s are meant to be versatile ships which are jack of all traits yet masters of none.

(elitatwo) #13

Here see this:

Logistics is the super specialized ship class for on-grid reps. There are 2 categories, armor and shield. The Guardian and Basilisk are best suited for fleet work and work best in numbers bigger or equal to 2.
The Oneiros is more of a solo-armor Guardian for smaller gangs and the scimitar is the small gang kind of solo-rep boat.

However, all 4 of them can be fit for solo work and rep about the same amounts of hp. You can look the repair values up in my fitting guide in the PVP section of the forums. They even contain the values for t3 cruisers and t2 or a-type medium reps.

(elitatwo) #14

No. The idea was to not create infinite capital reps on a cruiser platform.

You can fly Redeemers with Legions but it seems that 3 months wasn’t enough time for everyone to fit the Legions properly. What I find very puzzling is that your minmatar boat is so slow.
The proper link-logi Legion goes 1832m/s (somewhat about 3km/s with heat) and won’t need that signature decrease.

A link-logi Tengu still reaches around 1600m/s (2.8km/s with heat) while repping up to 6 gang mates and linking everyone. Having 3 link-logi Tengus in your gang gives you all 3 shield links and 18 medium shield boosters to spread.

(Saladinae) #15

I personally believe that they should be allowed to be the master of whichever specialization they choose, isn’t the skill point loss supposed to be the trade off for such versatility?

(elitatwo) #16

…but is not part of balancing ship classes.

(Saladinae) #17

Yeah I’m trying to figure that out too. I think the code is bugged on pyfa.

(Saladinae) #18

Are you saying that the Guardian is capable of infinite capital reps?

(elitatwo) #19

I have no doubt you can figure this out. Took me 3 hours of reading and fiddling to puzzle them together.

(elitatwo) #20

No, but I hear the Tengu and Legion used to have way too strong logi subsystems and would now be considered un-triaged capital reps.