ISD: Please Close Thread Factions or Races?

(Sasha Nemtsov) #1

Just a quick question, really.

I’ve seen Gallente, Minmatar, etc., variously described as both factions and races (and much worse…). Is there any contextual justification for using one or the other term?

I need to refer to one of them in an upcoming project, and I hate to get these things wrong.

Thank you.

(Sindara T'Soni) #2

Race (human categorization) - Wikipedia

Race is a concept used in the categorization of humans into groups, called races or racial groups, based on combinations of shared physical traits, ancestry, genetics, and social or cultural traits.

noun: faction; plural noun: factions

a small organized dissenting group within a larger one, especially in politics

I am sure it can (and will be) argued either way. Are Gallente, Caldari etc Factions within the Human Race (technically they are) or are they different races that may or may not have factions within them.

The more I look at definitions of Faction …

Faction definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
A faction is an organized group of people within a larger group, which opposes some of the ideas of the larger group and fights for its own ideas.

… the more it seems accurate, as we are led to believe ingame at least that the Caldari, Gallente etc are of one mind / type / mindset, suggesting that they are indeed factions of the larger whole which is the Human Race, rather than races with factions within.

I’ll stop there before I give myself a headache, but Factions get’s my vote :slight_smile:

(Ravana 729) #3

Race is considered a scientific misnomer here on Earth. The rule is, if it can breed together, it isn’t a “race” or something…

But Race is used often to describe the various bloodlines of each faction. Ie, you might be a Caldari National, but your race is Minmatar, specific bloodline, Sebestior, for example.

(Ralph King-Griffin) #4

factions,for all my typical amarrian anti mini role-play
i do firmly and outspokenly hold that people are people

(yellow parasol) #5

You should ask the experts in the RP forum about this. They should know best.

(Jandice Ymladris) #6

The way it is framed, EvE has a bit more justification to use ‘race’ then people in reality to describe the origin of people.

Race in eve (or better word; Bloodline) tends to refer to the origin of where people come from. We know, as player, everyone originated from earth a long, long time ago, but ingame, this isn’t the case, hence race/bloodline tends to hold importance in the game. Especially telling the Amarr that we’re all the same race won’t fly good. The Amarr do not take such Heresy lightly

Do note that faction & race/bloodline are two different things, you can be perfectly of Achura blood, but being part of the Caldari or Gallente faction (Caldari faction is the Caldari State, while Gallente is of course the Gallente Federation).

Do note it goes way deeper then this & asking this question in the lore section will get you a more detailed & precise answer.

(Mortlake) #7

Ah. So this is why you always made me jump first.

(Ralph King-Griffin) #8

oh you liked it, dont get coy now

(Sindara T'Soni) #9

Does this not argue then that ‘Gallente’ ‘Caldari’ and so on are indeed Factions and not races? (i.e. sub-groups where race (at least in terms of bloodline) does not necessarily link them at all and indeed different races belong to this group).

Then again, didn’t we all descend from African Eve? :thinking:

(Jandice Ymladris) #10

We all descended from Earth yes, but in Eve that planet is all but forgotten & merely a myth used to justify weird stuff (the ‘Aliens did it!’ variant of EvE really)

Caldari & Gallente are both.
They’re a faction as in: Caldari State & Gallente Federation, usually shortened to Caldari and Gallente or State and Federation(the nations)

They’re also a race, as they both came from different worlds. Caldari were shaped on Caldari prime, a frozen iceball where resources are scarce. Add ing to this, the Caldari race is a bit more complex, as both Civire & Deteis are of Caldari descent, so you can argue that in this case, Civire & Deteis are not really bloodlines but rather factions within the Caldari Race (because, to be Civire or Deteis, you have to have an ancestry leading to Caldari Prime)
Gallente on the other hand were shaped by the lush & bountiful environment of Gallente Prime, having formed a global union by the time they went space-faring.

So yea, it can get very complex.

The short gist is, if you speak of Caldari & Gallente as faction, it refers to the State (Includes Achura too! + the large group of Matari immigrants)) & the Federation (includes Mannar, Jin-Mei, Intaki & more).
If you refer to them as race, you speak of the people that originate from Caldari prime (Not Achura & not immigrants) & Gallente Prime (Not Mannar, Jin-Mei, Intaki & others).

In short, due to the race & factions bearing the same name, it can get confusing, but they are different entities. We can go deeper, but above is a short summary & by no means complete, but should help you on the way to memorize what Caldari & Gallente & others are as race/faction.

(Sasha Nemtsov) #11

Naturally, it was the first place I went to, but it occurred to me (before posting there, IC…) that I was less interested in seeing how they regarded themselves, than in an objective view. Also, I didn’t wish to start a new war…

They’re referred to as both factions and races just about everywhere, but I wanted a definitive and useful term.

So, in the end, I decided here would be a good place to start. And it turned up trumps!

(Sasha Nemtsov) #12

Thank you all for your input. I think I’m going to go with ‘Race’, because the project deals with those who originated on the planet Matar (I think that’s correct).

‘Faction’ is still useful as a broad term, and I’ll remember to try to use it appropriately! :grinning:

(ISD Stall) #13

(ISD Stall) #14

Locked by request.