Isnt it finally time to NERF Incursions?

(Persifonne) #1

The risk-free, ungankable, isk-printing “pve activity” of Incursion running has DESTABALIZED the economy.

For years and years the rsik-free isk faucet of 100% safe incursions have printted too much isk and have ruined the market and economy.

It is basically the SOLE REASON FOR INFLATION and is most of hisecs isk-generation.

Dude facts are facts and you cant deny it.
Incursions need a nerf years ago; FACT.

When is the time? Opinion!


(Vortexo VonBrenner) #2

“sole reason for inflation”, eh?..mmkk…


(Nerdz Rool) #3

I have to disagree. Eve is never risk free. Not even when docked.

(Cade Windstalker) #4


100% safe, right, that’s why TVP have gankers following them around and every community loses tens of billions in ships and fittings every month.

It’s not, if you look at the Monthly Economic Report, specifically the sinks and faucets graph:

You’ll note that Incursion Payouts are actually down compared to historic values, and if you look at Mission Payouts they’re only about a third to a fourth of Incursion payouts, which is about the ratio of paytout to bounties for most missions. That means that High Sec Missions as a whole are actually printing more ISK and having more of an impact on the economy than Incursions.

But no, please, continue. Don’t let me get facts in your rant :laughing:

(Marek Kanenald) #5

Economics report proves that what you are saying is complete and utter nonsense.


(hmskrecik) #6

All the post sums what I would want to say about the topic. With one correction

I believe null ratting also counts towards bounties paid. And if I were to speculate I’d say the gold is hidden there.

(Buoytender Bob) #7

Ratting in null sec give the best ticks and combined with the Rorquel (automated fleet or not) is the largest source of isk generation, not incursions. That is not to say that incursions shouldn’the be reworked a bit to encourage a larger player pool to participate at a slightly lower isk generating rate.

(hmskrecik) #8

I assume you are aware this is self-contradictory? :wink:

(Cade Windstalker) #9

Oh Null bounties are printing way more ISK than Incursions or High Sec Missions. I was referring to the line down under Incursions labeled “High Sec Mission Payouts” and then taking an educated guess at what slice of the bounty pie is coming from High Sec Missions. I’m estimating it at about the same level as the total Incursion payouts but without the wobble in the graph.

Null bounties are at least twice Incursions and all High Sec mission ISK put together.

(hmskrecik) #10

Ah, this. “Agent Mission Rewards” you mean? Unless I am mistaken this is the payout you get from an agent. They typically pay around 1 to 2 millions for completing a mission in which the bounty collected for destroying these ships goes into 5 to 25 million range.

(Buoytender Bob) #11

Not at all. The current Incursion community is the same group of players and corps that travel around running the sites. They tend to exclude newer players/new to incursion players or highly regulate/restrict builds such that the flow of new players into the Incursions themselves is reduced. I have proposed that scout sites (that are rarely run by the communities now) should be retooled such that both the difficulty and payout is reduced, thereby providing a starting point into the Incursion community. Not all of us who play EVE are into the max isk/hour ratio that drives so many of today’so communities/corps. Reducing the entrance requirements into Incursions should also have a reduction of their respected payout. I am not proposing that your higher end Incursion payouts be reduced (although I am willing to listen to a reasoned arguement)

(Nikea Tiber) #12

Risk free?

Incursion runners make some of the best gank targets; nice juicy modules. Love me some faction damage mods.

(hmskrecik) #13

Ok, I get what you mean. And I’m not going to argue with your… erm, arguments, but I’d like to provide alternative context.

Incursion community does what it does because:

  • it works for them
  • they like it
  • the benefits are good compared to costs

In order to do that they min-max their fittings, their fleets operations and community management. You don’t min-max and it is your right. They do and it is their right. And there is nothing preventing you from creating your own community operating as you please.

The only “problem” I see here is that Incursions are competitive business due to their pool being limited. I believe it is by design. And to my knowledge it is one-of-its-kind activity so I would be reluctant to make any drastic changes here. If for any reason you don’t fit there, there are already tons of other things to do instead.

(Nana Skalski) #14

This thread you made obviously too trollish. I like the toilet one better.

(Benje en Divalone) #15

Incursions themselves work for the people that do participate. It can be highly competitive. Accessibility changes would only open up those learning to not getting any payout at all which leads to folks going “why bother?”

That said I agree that there needs to be L3-L5 difficulty group PVE content that doesn’t punish people for daring to bring a friend or five. Scale the rats not the payment.

(Cade Windstalker) #16

Yup, that’s my point.

If you look at the value of the mission payouts the rat bounties are going to be 4-5 times that amount, so we can use the total mission bounties to estimate the total rat bounties attributable to missions in High Sec space since that’s where most mission running occurs.

(Cade Windstalker) #17

There are newbie friendly Incursion communities from VGs up to HQ fleets. The minimum requirements are because if you show up with less than that you either aren’t contributing to the fleet much or you’re gonna die.

The minimum requirements for a VG Incursion are lower than those required to run Level 4 missions with any semblance of efficiency and you still make more money.

The barrier to entry here is fine. Scout Sites need a rework, sure, but they don’t need to be stupidly easy or doable in a Cruiser either, since at that point you’d be competing with Level 2 or 3 missions for ISK value. That would make them pretty questionably worth doing even if they were doable solo.

EDIT: Oh and people have successfully run Incursions with entirely Alpha Clone fleets. It’s hardly efficient but you don’t get much lower than that in terms of barrier to entry. A VNI takes less training and costs less than a Drake.

(DeMichael Crimson) #18

The short answer = No

(Nevyn Auscent) #19

You don’t need to guess, CCP have handily included another graph that breaks down the sec status of where bounties come from.
However if talking isk faucets you also need to include the NPC commodities section that includes overseer effects and WH loot, and CCP also provided a handy graph that says how much is Null & how much is WH.
And if talking overall income including loot & lp well… yeah, faction modules/bpc’s etc from null as well.

Then also consider that incursions are run in low, so not all the incursion graph is from high sec (CCP have not provided a breakdown, but at a guess potentially up to 20% is low.) And that Incursions are competitive and not 100% up, and require significant fleet effort to get everyone there and organised.

And you start to laugh at the idea that incursions are the problem.

(Teckos Pech) #20

More like completely fact free.

Do you have even a scintilla of evidence to support your claim?