Thats it? Some threat…
The SP and isk are no barriers at all.
As for the zero risk, so you can attack war targets but then you can hide in the bowhead and they have to suicide gank it while it is protected by concord to continue. So yeah seems like if not ZERO risk, certainly negligible. They can’t even declare war on the person running the bowhead as it can be in a rookie corp or a corp without a structure. Hmm.
If this mechanic was legit I wonder why I don’t see bowheads all over low/nullsec? Probably because they would die if they landed on the field unprotected by concord or a real fleet. The only thing that makes the neutral bowhead useful for war is concord protecting it. Not anything about the bowhead itself.
The battle is about to commence, 2 minutes till the fun
You proposal will not change much. If you can’t store your ship, you still can unfit and store your expensive modules before you die.
That might work in a odd way. They get their ship kill, but it’s stripped? meh
Perhaps you would care to share examples to support this, it would educate us all.
Instead I can point out to you. That mining barges were introduced in November 2004. At the time of their additional to the game, there was no specific aggression on mining. A single mid-slot for a shield tanking hull. In fact, barges are not changed until July 2012. Almost eight years, during which there is a series of nerfs to aggression. If CCP was listening to the carebear there is no evidence of it.
On one hand the carebear is supposed to be some doofus that cannot fly properly and dies easily. On the other hand they some master-class negotiator able to sway the hearts and minds of CCP to nerf aggression. That is some serious level of Doublethink. But it guess it fits in with having a BigBorther figure watching over High-Sec.
What we actually have here is a re-write of Ludendorff’s “stabbed in the back myth” (for dummies"). We did not do anything wrong, some “other” has sabotaged us.
The July 2012 update came about after the 5th Hunkageddon, the 3rd Ice Interdiction and the advent of Miner Bumping. Enough to prove the poor state that an almost eight year old design had expired and need drastic measure to intervene. Miners did not have to say anything, gankers did all the talking.
But, do not let me stop you. By all means, keep playing the victim card of “one-more-nerf”. It is old design that has expired and is drastic need of a measure of intervention.
You want an example? The wardec nerf, requiring any corp that wants to war dec another corp to have an upwell structure. Let’s start with that one.
If you cannot afford in ISK or manpower to deploy, maintain, and defend an Upwell POS, then you have no business engaging in wardecs. If you really want wardecs, then grow your corp, join an alliance, and/or enlist in FW - all of which are desired emergent behaviors. Not exactly a nerf.
was my immediate thought too, shouldnt the 3rd party become valid game the instant they take a side?
Whatever is decided, it must be applied to all things equally. Mining barges and orcas, carriers in null, duels etc
You can get around awoxing with a warning ‘Shifty McScamface is at war. Do you accept their board ship request? You will go suspect’
please this stuff is so old, people have been using orcas to switch ships since they came out. most of the time ive seen the pirate come in to bait in a smaller ship, get attacked, scram attack carebear, orca warps ongrid, pirate switches to pvp ship like a hac or bc, blow carebear away, switch and warp out. ive seen it down with multiple pilots to using them to bump the carebear around to keep the chance from warping away down while the bait guy drops scrams and switches.
Yes, but this time CCP is listening
perhaps you should not be able to unfit while under attack/scrambled then.
it is already like this for structures. why not ships?
It is worth discussing, but given the contention that exists for just one minor change, I can only suggest that we proceed one iterative improvement at a time
Can’t help but think that this is because the wardeccers are using it now.
No one cared when miners used it to avoid the exact same situation.
Maybe if PIRAT bought more SKINs there wouldn’t be this sort of bias.
I’d like to reiterate that, as broken as this may seem, it can be countered using the existing game mechanics by bumping the Bowhead so they cannot dock there.
I do think adding the warp scrambling restriction would be a good idea for the sole reason that this is how docking in Upwell structures works and it doesn’t really make sense that there are more restrictions to dock in a structure than there are to dock in a ship. But if docking in Upwell structures worked the same way it works for NPC stations, I would see no reason to change anything here.
As cheesy as this mechanic may seem, it’s only a real problem if you’re unaware and don’t expect it. Otherwise you may prepare for and counter it using the already existing game mechanics.
The difference is that citadels have tethers. Ships and NPC stations do not.
Better late than never. CCP has impressed me the past couple of years with their willingness to aggressively disrupt the status quo with their changes, from gameplay to economy. Think about it. Removing HAWs from Titans. ECM 2.0. Cyno 2.0. Wardec immunity and numerous wardec updates since. Booshing. POSes in FW space. Boosting Minmatar projectile ships and Heavy missiles. And then there’s two major tax patches and resource redistribution in recent history. These are things that were status-quo for ages that could have been changed ages ago but weren’t touched back then, but they’re willing to touch them now because they’re willing to disrupt gameplay to change existing player behavior. Players cowering in Bowheads is not desirable gameplay regardless of whether or not it is tolerable or there are exploit counters; the two proposals in this thread limit this.
maybe that is because some lone miner saving his barge from gankers is a little different than a pvp fleet saving tens of billions worth of battleships, evading consequences of loss and changing the outcome of war.