It's Time for an EVE Online Hardcore Server

Accelerate training and remove the MTX from the in-game marketplace. Nothing else is needed.

Maybe a slight reworking of bubble interdiction mechanics. Maybe.

Because (1) trust would still be a factor, so assets would definitely still be lost, and (2) training wouldn’t be that fast, just faster than what we have now.

its too easily exploitable, even if there was a way to enforce a single account limit.

just reading the wow hardcore ruleset right know and i seriously wonder why ppl even play this? pvp is completely optional, so its basically just slow and boring leveling and maybe some raids later, urgh

quite surprised that even blizzard devs can figure this out, lol

I do like your approach to keep it more “E-sports” like, so for example removing skill injectors and cash store equipment would be one of many vital steps to ensure a hardcore server would be viable.

I am still not convinced on some of the issues I raised, sorry, you’ll have to go more indepth on these. So for example, while you would still play on both servers, not everyone (that is interested in the hardcore server to begin with) is the same, that’s only fair, right? If Eve is struggling with players, I think this is just going to make it worse, like you don’t see any issue here? :frowning:

Also, in regards to losing progress, there are some major complications that would muddy the water, that I didn’t really consider. So, for example, you could just transfer all of your isk and belongings to an alt character that is going to be your “bank”. With your active character you only take that which you need, i.e. a fitted combat ship, and do your fleet, missions, whatever. If you die, you lose your skillpoint progress, but all of your stuff is still safely stored in the bank, you just need to wait until you can reuse it. So if you’re willing to prepare, it seems a bit more feasible? But it doesn’t seem quite like the hardcore vision that you described, what do you think?

And as far as gankers go, there are many different variations and approaches to taking out a single target. Maybe you were thinking of catalysts here (I don’t think a battleship can take out catas with a single cycle?), but that would be both very specific and require incredible timing, and even if you actually kill them all, that would just be a minor setback for a dedicated ganking corp, they just recreate the next wave and go again. So, to me, ganking corps would still rule supremely and would wield massive power for little risk, similiar to the live server but now 100x worse. While you raised the idea of fighting back, I think you brushed off too quickly the massive implications that ganking will bring, am I wrong in my assessment?

With safe regards
-James Fuchs

WoW is structured differently from EVE. The sort of progression that WoW has means that a character that’s just 3 levels below another character is virtually useless against it. And a level-capped character is orders of magnitude stronger than a character just a single level below it.

Additionally, WoW BGs are designed as a high-repetition activity. You need to run many of them to acquire rewards. It’s simply a different archetype of gameplay. To that extent, EVE is actually much more suitable for a hardcore mode as a PvP game specifically.


I think there would actually be a synergy here, as opposed to a dissonance. The people who are drawn to hardcore modes in games like action RPGs and survival games, who aren’t particularly interested in EVE as a conventional MMO, might be drawn to it after trying out the hardcore mode. And like I said, existing players like me aren’t going to drop normal EVE in favor of the hardcore mode.

I think this is perfectly alright. It would be a new way to play a hardcore mode game, as opposed to an inferior one.

Don’t forget that the act of hoarding would entail doing content that in itself will be dangerous, which would add rarity and value to items. Likewise, the fact that players wouldn’t be grinding this mode 24/7 would also add rarity and value to items. Individual losses, especially on the higher end, are unlikely to be as trivial as you expect them to be.

I’m operating on the assumption that perma-death in a hardcore mode in EVE would entail pod loss, and not ship loss. To that extent, gankers are at a massive disadvantage in this regard, as they can easily and predictably be bombed out of existence during a gank, but losing a pod in high-sec after a conventional loss requires the player to be quite ineffectual at the game. Or AFK. And if you’re using auto-pilot in a hardcore mode, you kind of deserve what’s coming to you.

The arguments become a bit convoluted now, I’d like to focus on a specific point to make it easier for us to reply, and then go to the next ones upon conclusion, because frankly, typing a huge novel for like 10 different argument points every post is a bit bothersome, I assume that’s alright with you?

I think entirely new players that pick up Eve because of the hardcore mode is an interesting idea to consider, though it kind of runs counter to what you were proposing earlier by this being in essence a veteran-only affair. As far as the numbers go, we can only speculate, honestly. I think it wouldn’t be that high personally, because Eve has an incredibly high entry barrier as is.

You then again mention “player’s like me” would play on both servers, and I’m here thinking “how can you say that??”, like, you don’t know that??! Maybe I’m missing a ton of polls and surveys that have been conducted with all veteran players in secret, but honestly Destiny, that’s just waaaay too much of a presumption to base off entirely on how YOU would act.
Doing that would be an immense time investment, not to mention how exactly you would even play on both servers at the same time? Those are just too big of considerations to take for granted in my eyes, like do you not have any concern that player’s will not do the exact same thing like you would??

With puzzled regards
-James Fuchs

It would be both? I don’t see why it has to be one or the other. The two aren’t mutually-exclusive.

I know other people who would be interested in this.

Keep in mind I never claimed that this would result in another equally-populated EVE server. I specifically said there would be a few hundred to a few thousand players taking part. The ratio would be essentially equal to the hardcore mode ratios in other games.

Exactly how I already play multiple characters on the live server at the same time, or how I play EVE and other games at the same time (even if not concurrently).

No. This isn’t for them. Just like the WoW hardcore mode isn’t for WoW players who have no interest in playing a hardcore mode.

I should have added a poll to this thread, but it’s too late. I have this feeling that most of the people arguing against this concept are people who’d never touch a hardcore mode to begin with. Rather, they’re upset about the possibility of such a mode because its mere presence would make them feel insecure, like some kind of elevated form of existence from which they restrict themselves, but also feel resentment against the people who don’t.

I’m going to make a “case in point” here. There’s a particular FPS survival game I play occasionally, for which the devs just announced their plan to add a completely optional community server toggle to disable safe zones. Like I said, completely optional, and only for player-run community servers. Yet countless people started raging on them for this proposal, to the point where people were posting death threats on Steam.

I feel like people are providing a similarly irrational reaction here. Everyone who’s disagreed so far either doesn’t strike me as a hardcore mode player, or effectively admits to not being as such. But I’m more interested in what actual hardcore mode players think.

The real reason, as with any idea proposed on the EVE forums, is that such things would take resources away from other projects. It’s one thing if people actually enjoy it, but if it’s something CCP just shuts down because people aren’t making use of it (such as the Valkyrie servers) that’s not a benefit to the game as a whole.

Another factor is EVE has always been considered a single shard server. That’s not exactly true anymore, but for the most part it is. I’d prefer what you’re proposing actually be implemented on the main server. Maybe call them dark abyss (an area so deep into the abyss that the clone system wont work,) which requires a black or purple safety setting to enter.

If it’s so unpopular that it has to be shut down, I can live with that. At least we can try.

Also, it would be so low-impact due to the smaller player count, that it will hardly require resources. They can probably host the entire thing on the test server.

It’s not another shard; it’s a wholly different product.

Then we can just postpone the whole debate for now. Sorry, but I think there were some very warranted concerns raised, which you more or less just brushed off. Particularly the bid about the playerbase being split, it would have major ramifications for Eve online, unprecedented even. And it will affect you, even if you never plan on touching the hardcore server. I think it’s entirely reasonable to assume players will favor one server over the other, and all you have to say to that is “I personally would never do that”. And you asked a few buddies that flirted with the idea, but that just won’t do, plain and simple.

Of course, this all hinges on the server being actually successful, which is an entirely, entireeely different matter. We can brainstorm ideas to make it work, no problem. But we’re just in the conception phase and already running into major issues, that you (seemingly?) don’t want to talk about. Maybe sleep over it and come back with a clean head. I can understand that you’re frustrated and want to vent a bit, entirely reasonable given some of the more hostile responses. But if you are really serious about this hardcore server, you definitely have to take into account all the concerns of the people that will be affected by your idea. If you are ready to listen again, we can put our heads together and figure something out, no problem. Take care.

With warm regards
-James Fuchs

This hardcore server wouldn’t be for me but I would definitely try it a couple of times just to see what it’s all about.
I wouldn’t mind losing characters but I think I would quickly be bored of having to make new ones and invent new names, new looks just for it to be blown to bits and having to do it all over again. I’d quickly be bored. After the first couple ones I’d take the default character look. All the characters would have a generic look. It would feel too gamy-fake.
But I support the idea. Different modes for different players.

Well, I doubt a hardcore server has a high-sec.

1 Like

I think the issue here is that people are viewing this through the same lens that they view the idea of something like a PvE mode (which is a wholly separate discussion, and I’m only using it as an example here). But unlike a PvE mode, which players would go to in order to escape EVE’s current rule set (making it a zero-sum consideration), a hardcore mode would actually synergize with the normal mode, like it does for other games, where it’s viewed as a side activity instead of an alternative activity.

This is something I’ve wanted for many years. I just didn’t think that there would be room for discussion for it, but now, with the popularity of hardcore modes in other games, I believe there is.

Of course there would be a high-sec.

+1 to EVE hardcore server.

Very few/no one would play it though. :laughing:

Don’t think it would work but the ****housery and backstabbing would be funny to watch.


Loss is already permanent

It does have to “work” though otherwise people won’t use it and CCP will just incur costs for hosting another server nobody uses

And thats on the high end, people will bore of it pretty quickly, especially when you’re not going to end up flying anything bigger than a poorly fit cruiser, the second you start trying to harvest resources to build a ship someone is going to kill you and put you back to square 0 lol

Thats also before you remember how many systems there are in EVE and you could easily go weeks without ever running in to another player, nobody is going to want to waste that sort of time for 1 kill

most of the hardcore server should be composed of highsec systems

Okay, so, which one is it?



1 Like

Both can be true, people are going to camp whatever handful of resources you put there if you’re making a more limited set of systems, if you’re just allowing for all x thousand systems then you’re not likely to run in to anyone

Then maybe players will finally play EVE differently, as was probably intended by the original developers, by doing things like providing security escorts for people extracting resources/doing PvE.

If you try to frame the hardcore mode as nothing but a new server for the original game, of course it’s not going to seem viable. But getting players to play differently is the entire point, and that might mean “no more solo AFK farming,” among other things.

Also, it’s exceptionally difficult to kill a player doing PvE when they’re not AFK, as very little content in the game puts players into situations in which they can’t escape. Let alone being able to pod them.