JF changes cause of agro with the new lance

I had a experiance that shocked me in game and ccp told me to make my story here.

With the new lancer changes you can agro now stuff in warp before it land on gates.
This also means you can agro JF’s why they land in warp and because of magic and ccp they cant jump trough the gate so that other ppl can finish up the JF to kill.

I think this is a realy bad change for JF’s to 0.0 space.
It means that there is not a safe place any more to use a Big ship.
You can always get agro any where in warp or landing on a gate or station.

Maybe a idea is to make JF’s not get a agro timer with the lance, i dont mind it getting hit but you should survive the lance and dock or jump.

Now you cant do anything for 2 min when you are hit by it no matter where you are or what you do.


Or maybe, Just maybe, I know this is a far stretch, But use your brain? Jump to a structure on the gate your going to, Or scout the gate and check if theres a lancer there, if there is then dont go through.

All these people complaining lancers are a big threat to jump freighters, No they arent, and tbh, its been years since jump freighters have had any threat to them, This just forces the jf pilots to have a little bit of brain.

Stop crying for things to be nerfed and maybe just think how to actually deal with it?!

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The lancer was cloacked on the gate and de cloacked while i was in warp…
I did not want to post stuff on the forum cause of toxic response of people but sure.

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You understand that a lancer cant cloak if it has the lance fit right?

So what you do is pick a route with a structure on the gate, and you use that structure to cyno to, dock and then warp down and jump, they cant refit quick enough.

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i scouted the gate it was clear, i switched screen and warped when i was there in warp i got lanced.
So i dont know then how it happend but it was not there when i started warp or was on deep scan

Again, you understand that a lancer cannot have a cloak fitted to its ship while the lance is fitted…

So it literally HAS to refit, if you had scouted and warped from a close structure, it doesnt have time to decloak - refit - lance.

You can also killboard check people in local, THis isnt rocket science.

so he was cloack on the gate with a depot out, saw me on d scan.
un cloacked, refitted the cloack and lance.
Then aimed and fired his lance on my while i was in warp?

Still i was not dead and this is not my problem.
The main problem i have is the agro timer i survived the lance no problem but the timer prefented me from jumping.
That is what ticks my nerfs in all of this.

I do wanna add that just since a few days the lance dread kills show up on zkill

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And again…


i dont know how many times ive had to say the same sentence.

I will a next time i mean you dont need to say it twice.
It is just crazy game machanic that a ship that CANT agro in game gets a agro time cause of a lance.

This is just crazy to me and i think this is a good place to maybe find ppl that agree that a ship that cant agro should not get agro from a lance.

So at the same time, Its a crazy mechanic that makes a dreadnaught vulnerable for 5 minutes while in siege… ITs a CRAZY mechanic that creates CONTENT, You know go back a few years players wouldnt come to these forums crying because their usually unkillable ship finally has a way to kill it, They would theory crafting how to get revenge on the person that killed it. They would be speaking to their alliance and their friends and saying hey, How do we kill these.

Easy for you to say i still think it is stupid for a ship that cant agro gets a agro timer.
It only creates ‘CONTENT’ for big groups so i am sorry but i realy dont agree with you.

The entire point of eve is if you have assets to commit, you should be able to defend them.

Not my fault you cant get 10 people from your alliance to go and fight other people i guess? Ill ask you some questions then, Why should your jump freighter be unkillable?

Well, I feel that such a loss hurts, especially to a new mechanic. U might feel tricked right now and are sore because of it.

But please switch roles for a moment: JF enjoyed almost 100% safety for years now. Unless the pilot did a major fuckup mistake, there was simply not a single thing anyone could do to catch them since they safely could jump from one station to another and instantly dock up. Or warp to a gate and instantly jump. More ridiculous: you had to wait until they enter HIGH-sec, to gank them there if you wanted to see them blow up, because in LOW-sec you simply can’t do it. It’s almost comical.

What would your solution to this dilemma look like? What better idea than lances do you have to make sure hunters can set up a trap and catch one if he steps into it?

Thank you for your response, i realy think this new game mechanic is a little op.
I mean a jf is a realy weak target and is realy easy to kill and you need to be realy carefull.

The high sec ganking atm is crazy i dont even dare to run my jf into high sec.

The only way i could have seen this happening was to check if there was a mobile depot witch there was not in my case.
Orbit that to check for a cloacked dread.
Once i have found that dread i cant do anything about it about not going in.

I think what should be a good solution is remove the agro timer ( for jf’s and freighters ) and make it so you need to lance it in one go so if i survice with bulkheads i can just jump in without a agro timer cause i did nothing to agro.

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And do you have an idea how many lancer dreads it would need to kill a JF in one go? A Lance strike does 17.000 base damage (more with max skills, yes…) and a JF has like 900.000 eHP. This means it would take 53 Lancer Dreads all firing at the same time and at the correct spot to kill a JF in one go like you suggested. One Lancer Dread does kost like 10b? More? Well, so the attackers need to bring like many hundred billion ISK and dozens of capital-skilled pilots to the field to catch a JF? You still think thats a balanced solution?

Make the lance more applicable to the JF i mean it is a realy big ship.
The lance is now just used as a mega OP agro button that you can cloack on or near a gate un cloack get the op thing warp or just shoot.

I mean is this the real porpus of a epic lance :
To make it so freighers cant use a jump gate ?
this to me does not mimic an mini dooms day ray does it.

Maybe a other solution would be to make it so they can never cloack or make a session timer on the removel and setting of a lance ?
Just theorie crafting here.

i do think the way it is used like this on a normal gate is not what i would think the porpus of a doomday ray should be.
thether wise i do get it and agree with it 100%.

Other wise the only way of doing it when you dont have a big group is to find a system that has 0 ppl in it.
Cause its crazy the only way of a counter then is to check zkill thats it .
That to me is a crazy meta.

If you do that, it would also apply much more damage to other “big targets”, like Carriers, Dreads etc. and with their ability to hit multiple targets at once, this could have lots of unintended side effects, since the lancer dreads should be no replacement or upgrade for normal or faction dreads.

Then you got that wrong. The descripion of the module specifically classfies it as “disruptive lance” (in contrast to the normal lance modules of Titans), which primary effect is to prevent a target from escaping (by docking, jumping a gate, jumping to a cyno etc…). So stopping a ship (and in your case thats a JF) from escaping through a gate is exactly what these ships and modules are designed for.

So its fine to just allow it to cloack it near a gate refit and all the stuff before i land and shoot.
That to me is realy op you can use that ability like that without me being able to scout it.
Besides from checking local with zkill witch dont matter these first weeks.

Why shouldn’t it be okay? I would even bet they didn’t use a Mobile Depot at the gate for refitting because you could see that, if I had set up the trap I would have used a cloaked Nestor right next to the Lancer Dread. And of course keep the local empty and bring in the killing crew via Covert Cyno (BlackOps) once you are tagged by the Lance. It did happen this way, right?

I bet if you link the killmail there are like a dozen people on it, and you were alone with maybe an Alt. Why shouldn’t they win? Nobody forced you to use a 12B ISK ship solo in an hostile environment, or did anyone? EVE is a massive multiplayer game and when operating with such high-value equipment, it is strongly advised to do it as a fleet-operation, using multiple support ships.

See, these guys really had set up a well-made trap for you. And you stepped in. Thats nothing “unfair” or “crazy OP”. With all the knowledge you have now and the right preparations on your side, you could even have survived it, its far from being uncounterable.

It was nothing like that, but it was a good trap!

And i totaly disagree with you i still think it is crazy OP.

If this is going to stay a diffrent way to fix it is maybe making jf and freighters cheaper.