so these changes apply only for t3 cruisers and not destroyers correct?
I guess this would be visible on SISI anyway.
The invention chance changes apply to the small hull relics as well, but the manufacturing time changes only impact the cruisers.
It seems that youāre making destroyer relics and cruiser relics have the same invention chance, correct?
Iāve always wondered why the decision was made to give destroyer relics a higher base invention chance, way back when they were introduced.
Alright, very nice to see that most of my changes have been implemented, that should keep all appearances much closer to what they used to be, thank you. I still have a few quarrels with each of the hulls however:
Loki:
- Is there any chance at all of bringing the graphics of a removed subsystem back into the game? I realize that thereās already been work put into these to make them compliant with SKINs, but while Projectile Scoping has its old graphics back, Launcher Efficiency should really get the Hardpoint Efficiency graphics, considering that was the previous āmissileā sub, and itās clearly being referenced in name and dronebay.
EDIT: one of my corpmates actually just noticed that this is more urgent than i thought, with the current graphics for Launcher Efficiency, Heavy Missile Launchers actually clip into each other (check here @CCP_Fozzie ) - Again, bringing subsystems back. This is more of a personal pet peeve, but what used to be the Capacitor Regeneration subsystem (now Adaptive Defense) just looks so so bad in p much every config, while the power core multiplier (one of the more popular old subs to boot) was actually decent looking.
Tengu:
- This oneās actually mostly fine, except for the Amplification Node not using the Augmented Capacitor sub. Keeping the big flat capacitor bonus where it used to be would make sense to me. the same goes for the Lokis Adaptive Defense sub.
Legion:
- Is there any specific reason my suggestion to change the Energy Parasitic Complex back to its original graphics, but not doing the same for the Dissolution Sequencer? On Sisi right now, the Dissolution Sequencer is using Emergent Locus Analyzer Graphics, while the Augmented Antimatter Reactor uses the Dissolution Sequencerās.
Proteus:
- Again, any particular reason the Drone Synthesis subsystem didnāt get its graphics back? Thereās no practical reason to give the (old) Covert Reconfiguration graphics to the new Drone Synthesis projector instead of the Support Processor.
If preferred, I can make another one of those Google Docs with all the changes, but considering thereās only a few points left that should be looked at, Iāll leave it like this for the moment.
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āWe have cancelled the plans to reduce the number of runs on T3 BPCs invented from ancient relics. Instead we are reducing the invention chance by a similar amount. The new invention chances for all ancient relics on SISI are:ā
@CCP_Fozzie
Maybe this is a bad suggestion, have you considered making the wrecked relics invent higher BPCās but then lower the chance to get it, so net net its the same, but when you actually are successful you get a more meaningful BPC set? like 5x run but 10% chance. It makes them more usable but doesnt actually change the stats.
Seems like you are trying to increase the value of relic drops a bit, and increase the drops on data sites, maybe this would help with the wrecked values.
20% reduction in datacore supply, given how over supplied they are is that even enough to change it? You know the numbers in the background of course, but it just seems like a reduction of 20% would barely affect the market and thus value of the data sites.
What changes are you talking about loki wasnāt touched visually
Missile sub should be back because it look better and there is no clipping of missile turrets on it
Capacitor regen sub need to be scraped for betterment of humanity .
Why are these points not addressed?
This is all about the inability of F1 monkeys to counter the nullified rail Tengu fleets.
Any fleet concept has a counter.
Asset protection (POS, Citidal, hubs, gates)= Make 6 500k Op points around asset. 1 skilled Cov OP pilot, 20-50 interceptors.
Cov Ops pilot, combat probes out at .5 AU on asset.
Inerceptor fleet at OPās moving, T3 fleet coming on grid, align towards T3 landing point.
Cov OP pilot, T3 fleet coming on overview, start probe scan, probe lock about the time they land, Warp fleet to 0, stop cov op warp.
Interceptors land inside T3 fleet before they can even start to lock anything, point, web, orbit at 500m X 20-50, Interceptors at 0k, 30k under the helpless T3 rail-guns, kill all at leisure, warp in additional forces, you got them. Game over for nullified fleets.
This is strictly on the cosmetics part of the T3C.
Legion
Propulsion
My issue is with propulsion.
I think the Legion Propulsion - Wake Limiter Tranq or the Legion Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier on SISI looks the worst of all prop systems those floppy ass wings kinda makes it look a bit frail and elongated.
Everything else is good, im glad to that Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network from Tranq is gone from legion, too pointy.
Tengu
Propulsion
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier its the worsts again, weird thingy on top makes it mhmhmh not unsymmetrical but not very pleasant to look at. The old gravitational capacitor looked better even though it made it look small.
Defensive
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node the fact that is unsymmetrical is slowly grinding at my eyes. altough its not that badā¦ it could be better.
Core Systems
Tengu Core - Obfuscation Manifold its the most ugly and makes the ship looks like it has a weird crooked nose. Worst front cosmetic IMO.
Loki
Defensive
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Defense Node that hump on its back looks meh but again not truly horrendous.
Like what u did with the offensive you eliminated the ugliest one, the old launcher config.
The Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array makes it look like the loki wore a corset for an eternety.
Proteus
I im very neutral on the proteus except the fronts they all look very pointy in a very meh way.
Well thats my take on it. I am mostly interested in symmetry and the ships looking sharp, aggressive and aerodynamic instead of looking like a sad clown(Tengu Core - Obfuscation Manifold ) cough cough.
While the visuals are normally just purely subjective in nature in regards to what looks good and what looks bad, the T3Cās in particular have the rather unique trait that their looks denote much of what they can and cannot do in that moment. Seeing a T3C with certain subs can be very indicative of their fits and intended purpose. So, even though I personally hate the fact that, as Iāve heard it from others, some of my favorite subsā visuals will disappear soon, Iām rather confused as to why the Tenguās Interdiction Nullifier sub and Fuel Catalyst sub was visually swapped. The two subs remain as planned for T3C 2.0, but they now look like each other. I havenāt really gone through the other T3Cās and what they now look like with respects to their current versus new subs, but I imagine more cases like that might have been decided on. I can understand reworking their looks due to the loss of some subs, but why switch two subs visually like that?
Again, while I and likely many other players have kind of grown heavily attached to how some of our T3Cās look, I can respect that a lot of the changes to the subs visually have had to happen due to the significant alterations being made to their stats, design, and code. That said, if I were to suggest a change to consider, itās to maintain the current visual design for the Tengu Fuel Catalyst and Interdiction Nullifier subs.
In any case, thank you guys for finally tackling this area of Eve. Itās been a long time coming and hopefully this will move T3Cās into a better place or at the very least closer to that end. Hope you guys have a happy 4th of July. Stay safe and fly dangerous, pilots.
Iām not sure when you checked for the last time, but there has been a sisi patch today that switched the graphics of most subs back to what they used to be (if possible), including swapping the Tenguās propulsion subs back around.
2 Likes
I trust in the feedback of my many peers who fly these ships day in and day out. I just wanna add that if it isnt sexy, i dont care if it has a trillion dps. I wont fly it. The old domi is a perfect example.
From the complete absence of any exploration related discussion in the Focus Group blogs as well as the total disregard for any of the Exploration related posts it would seem that the fear both the Focus Group and CCP in @CCP_Fozzie seems to really not care and actually made an effort to make it irrelevant a reality.
Exploration is the hardest hit because the focus is fully on how to make the T3C most valuable and usable in aggressive and fleet based situations. The fact there is really no alternative for exploration seems to go unnoticed. And no, the Stratios is not a suitable alternative here.
Hi @CCP_Fozzie ,
thanks for keeping all of us in the loop. Much appreciated.
Running the current numbers it seems to me, that the build costs are going to be too low, considering how very powerful both in stats and in versatility the new T3 Cruisers will be.
I mean you are not really nerfing these things, just making them less obvious choices for certain current roles in current fleets - while making them much more versatile and Iād say even more powerful in the hands of the active player. That subsystem bay, the buffed overheating possibilities and most of all the ability to change rigs are extremly powerful boni and given a bit of time Iām certain they will change almost every aspect of how things are done. While thatās a good thing, there is also the danger of still being the obvious choice - albeit after adapting how to do things.
Unavoidable market speculation aside, with current numbers the T3C + 4 Subs will cost only a tiny bit more than prevamp, which puts them too close to T2 Cruisers which is a problem when one T3C can transformer-like change into a variety of T2Cs within a minute. I know you donāt target some specific price, but tweaking every piece of the production chain just a bit should do the job.
tl;dr If the change to the Ancient Relic loottable stays the only real hit to cost, itās gonna be really bad 
P.S. (kinda offtopic) Everyone hates the SP loss on T3C loss and in my book it makes for a bit too much an advantage of well-off players over cheaper bros and sis in times of Skill Injectors. How about changing that in some way - like āif you shoot back, you donāt lose as many SPā or whatnot?
What if they added the ability to āsafelyā eject from a T3C?
If you know you are going to lose a fight and probably canāt escape, you can make the call to risk a āsafeā eject that disables all active modules and stops your ship and after a certain amount of time (10-20s? Possibly improved with T3C skill bonus?) it spits out your pod with no SP loss
The pilot is risking being blown to bits and losing SP anyways (and faster, with no modules running), and the process cannot be aborted so they have to choose between bailing or trying to squeak by on hull and overheated everything to pull off a clutch escape or kill
The enemy may or may not notice the T3C stop moving and firing, and can choose between continuing to hammer on the ship and trying to pop it before the pilot can save their SP, or letting the pilot eject and capturing an unpiloted T3C
go to windows spaceship taskbar, click āsafely remove hardware capsuleerā, unplug USB drive pod
I only bought my Proteus about a month ago to try itās current state, because itās not really good for what I would like to use it for (solo exploration and PVE) and I donāt have the skills to use non-Gallente advanced cruisers yet. I had no experience, still donāt have much, this is why I didnāt even consider trying to be part of the focus group, even if I had ideas.
Maybe I should have.
Because the lack of experience also means the lack of preferences, so I can judge objectively (most of the times). But the focus group only seem to have hunters, industrialists and fleet combat people, so these are the things the new version is focused around.
Lack of experience doesnāt equal objectivity, but Iām sure if you specifically state what in your view is a bad change regarding Solo exploration and PVE, it will be heard.
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I will admit the T3 hulls are not as pronounced for exploration as they once were. However, I do welcome the challenge of trying new things. I havenāt messed with exploration fits to much but I feel for them to be balanced they should be able to go toe to toe with their non T3 exploration equivalent, the Stratios.
In regards to the subsystem visuals:
Bottom line, there is no way to please everyone with the subsystem visuals.
For example, initially on sisi the Tengu Accelerated Ejection Bay was being changed to the tranquility version of the Covert Reconfiguration. I thought this was an awesome change as it gave the Tengu a more aggressive combat look. I understand why some would prefer the traditional look as I too prefer some of the other traditional subsystems like the Legions Emergent Locus Analyzer. Difficult call to make really.
I believe it might help to have a poll go out to everyone, or something similar, that lists the new subsystem name and then you can select which subsystem from tranquility that you would like it to be paired up with. Then, majority rules and that is what we go with. Another thought, the CCP art team has been doing an absolutely awesome job updating the ships so have them make the decision for how they want the visualization of EVE to go.
Lastly, Iāve heard rumors of a subsystem bay. Will we still require a mobile depot to swap out subsystems while in space or swap them out on the go?
I dont see anything here that states what will happen to already invented bpc of the subsystems, What will happen to my bpc of say the Legionās Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter sub, or the Legion Defensive - Warfare Processor ?
rails proteus is tons of fun in PVE.
[Proteus, Guns + Drones]
Damage Control II
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Large Cap Battery II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
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probably converted just like the modules?