Kestrel vs Tormentor - what went wrong?

I gated into a small outpost, approached target at 15k, set orbit at c. 8k, heated guns, used CN Nova (i think), died.

Can my build take out an active Armor tanked Tormentor? Previous Tormentor loss by this player:

What could I have done differently?

I see a few things with the ships themselves that are working against you
1 - Your shield Kestrel has no EM resistance, and a low Thermal resist. That Tormentor is doing EM/Thermal damage which is melting you.
2 - You have a buffer tank vs an active tank. Not necessarily a deal breaker but it does potentially allow him to tank more damage than you can.
3 - The microwarp drive is ineffective when you are engaged with that brawling fit. Your opponent will likely dictate range with his afterburner.

I dont fly Kestrels but might recommend a couple of fitting ideas you can try

[Kestrel, MASB] (can be a buffer fit too, just swap the MASB for a med shield extender)

Ballistic Control System II
IFFA Compact Damage Control

1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

[Kestrel, Webs]
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Damage Control II

1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Rocket Launcher II,Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Nova Rage Rocket

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I


Great. Thanks for the response.

I should have said that I am aiming for passive tanks fits.

Perhaps swapping the DCU for a Ballistic mod? What’s the value of the ehp versus 20/30 dps?

Liking the double Web passive Armor tank. Sorry, I didn’t see this when I replied.

I will fire this up and have a play around. Worried about kiters though. Wonder if it wouldfit AB vs Web.

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…said brawlers everywhere…



If you were tanked against his damage type it would have been an equal fight. At least put a anti-EM rig on there to plug that hole.

Is the 300 (is) buffer of a second anti em buffer more or less effective than the 30% resist?

The fight lasts a few seconds. 3.4k damage taken.

Weighing up the risk of them not using em ammo?


It’s an Amarrian ship (the Tormentor) with bonuses to Energy Turrets - it can’t change damage type away from EM/Thermal and it’s mainly EM damage especially at range.
Energy Turrets have their advantages (such as rapid range changing) but the downside is fixed damage type.

I know I’m ignoring the drones - but most of the Tormentor’s DPS comes from its guns - two unbonused drones aren’t a big deal.

If you entered the outpost knowing a Tormentor was in there then you can be fairly confident of what damage type you’ll be facing - and if you have poor resists against EM/Thermal then you know it’ll be rough in there.

As an Amarrian pilot I’m always happier fighting sheild fitted ships as they are either EM weak or have used fitting capacity to close the hole rather than for an offensive purpose.

The Tormentor is often underestimated - but the Prawn has claws.

The oddity is the Punisher: there’s no damage bonuses to Energy Turrets for it (only a capacitor efficiency bonus) so Projectile fits are not unknown.

Don’t you mean; projectile fits are not uncommon???

Either statement is valid, though “not uncommon” implies you see them more often than you do in practice.
An Amarrian pilot, specialising in Energy Turrets, is more likely to go with an Energy Turret fit (especially if they have Amarr Frigate V and good capacitor skills) than cross train into projectiles. The big headache for a Projectile Punisher is that it’s a bit slow and has difficulty managing range in a fight.
Auto-cannon fits get kited, artillery fits have problems tracking and can’t maintain range to kite easily.

Known? Yes but not frequently seen because of the challenges flying them.

Great points well made. Let me broaden the context of the plug vs buffer question to apply in general pre-departing on a roam where targets are unknown in advance.

Do you plug or do you buffer?


If I don’t know what I’m facing I’d make sure I didn’t have any galloping great holes in one of the resists then go for a reasonable buffer behind it. If I’ve got logistics support in the fleet it would ideally be a resistance based buffer to improve the effectiveness of remote reps, failing that just sheer armour mass by whatever works best.
Or something similar if shield fitting.

It’s not uncommon to fit an anti-explosive armour rig on a Punisher as it often has a bit of a hole there and Minmatar pilots will shoot for it if they can.
(Naughty little Minmatars in their rusty rock slingers).

Just be aware that resistance modules and rigs have stacking penalties - and you need to be aware of the decreasing returns that adding more resists may give. Individual resistance modules may be more effective that the same number of omni-resists.
A DC2 and a couple of adaptives and you’re at your three…

I don’t think the DC contributes to the diminishing returns of the adaptives, unless that somehow changed in recent years.

I’m not completely sure either, but stacking is something you need to be aware of.

Generally speaking, against amar ships, you must try to use his relative bad tracking of his guns.

So you’d need to fit an afterburner, and try to orbit then at 500m, or make transversals at 45º degrees, to get close with some traversal to reduce his dps application.

Neuts and tracking disruptors works very well against amar ships due they weapons nature.

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