Will someone just ■■■■■■■ tell us what a lv 4 should be worth already, and break it up into hgih sec low sec and make a table so WHO THE ■■■■ EVER is developing this game now, can fix it and you all miners can get back to work?
what ?
It’s the devs who decided that. More important as I wrote, it depends on a lot of parameters.
Just write something simple up already and put it up so people can hash it all out.
while would I write something simple to represent something complex ?
OMG …
Then yo udont understand it yet and YOU shouldnt be the one writing it. 
I have too much stuff to do to atm and don’t have an intesrest in putting a simple sheet together for ya, with no incentive and I dont use HS for ik anyway so … its up to someone who cares or is affected by HS this way to do it.
you don’t get it.
missions are worth more or less depending on a lot of factors I gave above.
You can’t say “everybody doing missions in HS should make 50M/h”
Even among several systems in HS there are a lot of differences.
So in the end, there is not ONE value of gain in HS.
Example : why would mining veldspar in a procurer in a backwater 1.0 system be worth the same value as mining another more expensive ore (eg gneiss) on a moon you installed and are using with friends in a .5 system with lots of people traveling ?
you are asking for an over simplified model that actually does not make any sense.
The mission rewards from an agent can go from 1 to 1.8 depending on the system. You can’t give one number with a 30% variation (in this case 1.4) ! It just makes no sense.
Then the complexity of Eve is what make people able to find out profit. If it was WoW everybody would make the same crappy quest because every body would have the same income from it. In eve, if everybody does the same thing, that thing becomes less worth. That’s why it’s interesting : people curious can find activities that are worth much more than what the average player base is doing. The moment everybody starts doing it, though, it becomes as worth as the other activities.
I’ve played pretty much everything in this game at one time or another, and I still like missions and tend to play them more than anything else. Part of the reason for this is that I do like them and find them satisfying, sufficiently rewarding gameplay. It’s all fine and good to criticize people for “risk aversion,” but after living with a YOLO PVP lowsec/sov null corp for years, I can tell you it’s nice to be able to keep a little of what you manage to build in this game in order to invest it in larger game goals besides the next gudfight. Furthermore, missions are play on demand, which cannot be said for anything else in EVE beyond the recent addition of abyssals or Project Discovery. I have a real life with grown up demands. I can only game during certain hours, for a certain length of time. If I login and there isn’t a fleet up, or one can’t be organized, or the system is death camped, or the wormhole connections aren’t up, missions are always there waiting for me in at least one pocket of space. That alone makes them preferential gameplay.
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Not to mention this is not the only variable. Skills also change payouts, standings with the agent, etc.
yeah but that’s not a balancing factor. Rewards should be balanced with max skill in mind. Actually some missions are just not worth it unless you have max skills.
My idea is what is the usual loss expected on these runs, and give it some multiplier. For instance should you earn 1/4 your loss? 1/2 your loss? 1/10th?
How many runs do you need before you pay off your loss, then the rest is profit.
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I hate to be a dick, but grinding is not necessarily the best option.
For me saving my pop cans in a large trash can pays for my yearly sub and buying plex when I get get isk low.
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Not going to happen, so many none high sec dwellers back years ago beat the drum of “too profitable” in high sec, the ultimate plan was to push people into null so it could be a groping room for the pleasure of PVP, it didn’t work.
Years later they are still beating away at every avenue, now being an alpha is “too profitable” even too the point of wanting to take away heavy drones from alphas (my account is omega), , there is no satisfactory level till they nerf high sec into oblivion, it’s tough enough to keep accounts already and if we keep going it will be even more so, but like bullies on a play ground when the people move on they will get lonely and then follow then start again on the next platform.
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Based on what metric exactly?
Because it only sounds like you want more rewards for doing what is arguably the safest PvE in the game, its literally babies first PvE, you’re not supposed to be doing those for a major source of income, if you have limited play time do abyssal deadspace pockets, they pay out for more and you only need a cruiser for those 
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I have to agree with OP. My corpies and I used to have a great time doing L4s in 2011. I tried an L4 again a few months ago, just to see what they’re like now. I didn’t salvage, so I don’t know what the current payout for that would be. But the agent rewards in 2011 and now seem about identical. Like, pitiful compared to the costs of items now. Seems the rewards amounts need some rebalancing. Nobody needs to get rich doing them, but the rewards should be balanced more with the current cost of living.
(Fact: Eve used to have a professional economist advising the devs about such things).
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Cost of the vast majority of (non-service) items have plunged downward, though, so you have more buying power than than back then. You’ll acquire immensely more wealth if you do loot and salvage, which you absolutely should do if wealth if your objective (though, as I made the case for earlier, mission running is not intended for revenue)
Not trying to argumentative, just trying to be informative here. I agree that many people use their best day numbers when they promote an activity. But the numbers that I’ve seen in this thread are probably conservative estimates actually.
In my case, when I say I can lazily full clear a certain mission for about ~50mil isk in about 45min, that is conservative, as I’ve run that mission with a little more focus in about 40min including travel time to and from station. And that’s in a non-optimized marauder that is over-tanked and fitting only two T2 mag stabs. Someone more hardcore than myself could easily surpass my numbers. And remember, there is more than one way to run missions; full clears, farming, blitzing, and burners as examples. In addition, you don’t have to just stick with one agent.
As with any content in EVE, it takes experienced and skilled players with the “right” assets to attain the higher tiers of income within those categories. We can theorize on some those factors:
Human Factors:
- Experience
- Knowledge/Research
- Focus
- Drive
- Time
Game Factors:
- Skills
- Ships
- Fittings
- Location
I might have missed some. But as with any profession where a person is recognized as being proficient, it’s mostly all about optimizing the above factors. However, running one content all the time will likely lead to burn out. That’s why regardless if an income stream is good or not, everyone should explore different areas of the game to switch things up and keep it fresh.
there’s a lot of it depends but some in general numbers for normal mission running including converting LP to isk:
low skill in a t1 bs doing okay I’d guess ~50-60mil/hour, below this you are probably better off blitzing lv3s. With low skills might even be better to use a gila than a BS. I was meaning to get some numbers but now that alphas can’t pull lv4s I probably wont get around to it.
high skill marauder/mach ~100-120mil hour, there’s been a bunch of threads showing these numbers in the missions subforum.
Blitzing burners with high skills and implants you can hit ~200-300 mil/hour depending on what system you are in. Travel time becomes the big bottleneck here and LP conversions create a bunch of variability.
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power creep has made most mission ships stronger, and tactics have been refined so even though payouts are the same income per hour has gone up. Also CCP added burner missions which have very good payouts and compete with other high end pve activities.
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Sir, please, stay one more week in game and you’ll be surpriesed even more.
If you have the skills and are willing to make the investment
Level 4 burners can pull 200ml/hr
You need about 5 bil in ships and fittings and a toon with around 85mil in SP all combat. But that is the upper end. If you want to make iskies in missions, “Thou shall not salvage” wastes WAY to much time when you could be three missions down the road making more LP. LP is where the isk is. When loot was nerfed (it was heavily) and the BPCs for rigs changed salvaging should have went by the way side.
If I get a good run of missions I can pull 60mil an hour in bounties alone. That requires Blockades and such low travel time farm a thons. Burners up that significantly. But you have to be good at selling LP, and/or have a dedicated market toon to sit in a hub and play .01isk bingo.
I can do a blockade in a single tick, I am also dropping a pimped out rattler and dedicated booster alt so about 2600dps to blast that many mobs that fast.