Large Fleet Fix to Monster Nuking Ship Blobs

I have an idea to make the fleet fights similar to that old 2014 fan fest video where a massive Titan spawns in to destroy the supers and pound the opposing fleet.

Correct me if I'm wrong but to me CCP could lock it into a fleet mechanic so that you only have 1 at most 2 on a side based on the size of the fleet. It would stop major super capital blobs and would make for interesting large fleets.

To break down the idea; CCP could add a fleet mechanic, based on fleet size and for a cost during fleet, where you warp in from a holding area a disposable behemoth to clean up the supers on field. The monster ship would only allow for one per fleet by only making one available when a fleet is 'held' at or above a certain size of pilots.

  1. It's would be only usable by Alliance while the fleet is going and assigned to a pilot pod that is able to drive it, who was in a hold facility waiting in a specified area.
  2. The monster ship wouldn't be built, command would call it in to be warped to field only when you have a large enough fleet (say 500+ or even lock it down to the number of super caps are brought into the fleet so that if there are to many on field the numbers are thinned out.) it becomes available for a price ISK.
  3. If the fleet size drops the pilot will wake up in the facility and the monster will de-spawn.
  4. It kills Titan and Super Capitals. BOOM!!

Large fleet battles could take on a different landscape and one that was more the intention of CCP based on their 2014 fan fest video. You would end up with only 1 or 2 at most, in a major battle per side as the monster nuker is fully equipped and locked into the live fleet size.

Makes for interesting large battles right? Obviously your suggestions are welcome it's just a raw idea at this point that we could hash out together. It needs a lot of fleshing out.

It’s a convoluted idea that’s not realistic even by video game standards.

The solution to the proliferation of supercapital ships has always been very simple: make small ships be able to do catastrophic damage to them. Just like in generic sci-fi, where you can observe smaller ships being able to surgically target the subsystems of capital ships, frigates in EVE could perform a similar function. Because logic dictates that if small ships aren’t dangerous to large ships, there’s really no reason to have small ships at all.

We see a tiny bit of this design methodology in Upwell fighters. Hopefully that gets extended to the rest of the game.

Oh, did I mention that carriers and supercarriers could use player frigates as fighters, essentially? They could give them specific command bonuses, and centralize movement and targeting with specific orders. It would be the closest thing EVE would have to the concept of the kill chain.


This might be a stretch but I hope that CCP is trying to achieve something like this via their current resource re-balancing attempt. The best way to organically limit the number of supers is the make them expensive again.

If small ships cannot kill large ships there’s no reason to have them? That’s nonsense. The purpose of small ships is to kill small ships, the purpose of large ships is to kill large ships. The design goes wrong when large can kill small easily and small can kill large easily - as either way round it reduces the need for either the small or large ship as 1 ship type can effectively do it all.

Just to add as I suspect you’re one of those newer anti veteran players… Any MMO needs that longterm hook, supers are great at that, it took me 4 years to get my first titan, that’s a heck of a lot of sub payments to CCP, but the journey was a blast and it was reading about the supercap battles like BR5 on PC Gamer that helped build that incentive to do it. Loved every second of it.

If the game was to become Subcaps Online it would get boring quickly.

This won’t be a popular opinion here, but I think this is why you can see CCP being very careful, when they introduced the scarcity phase and nerfed supers, they also introduced the new Avatar titan model at the same time. I think that’s to make it clear that, whilst changes are needed for the health of the sandpit, they still recognise supers are important. Threw a bone to titan pilots to demonstrate they still care for that playstyle.

Thankfully CCP is staffed by adults who make calm, measured judgements based on facts, reasoning, metrics and the bigger picture. Unlike the mouth frothing wildly irrational types that frequent these forums that are unable to entertain a different perspective and purposefully want to drive out any player that dared to invest in a super… Like that’s a good idea.

Think through what you just said, and logically try to determine whether it made any sense. No, don’t start typing a response yet; think first, then start typing a response.

Why do you have to suspect anything when you can just show info on a character?

Ah, it’s all starting to make sense now.

Look man, no one’s trying to take your e-peen space pixel away. No one’s even asking for it to be nerfed.

Really, the only thing that people want is for a counter to exist to supers that’s not just more supers.


This…this is exactly the issue.


You’re wrong

That was easy.


Try to take the emotion out of it, it’s normal for people to share a difference of opinion and still be able to have a conversation. Settle down and I’ll happily go back and forth debating this with you. Throw a paddy again and I’m out.

I’ll keep it simple as I suspect you’ll be very keen to dissect my post, this is my thinking in a nutshell:

  1. Supers were oppressive because they did very well against small ships. The oft mentioned scenario where someone roams null sec solo or as a small man only to get dropped on by a super and whelped with very little they can do in response. This was a problem in my mind.

  2. That said, I do not think somehow enabling a small man to whelp a super is the solution as we’d all just fly subcaps, very little reason to grind 20b for a super if a few 200m cruisers can whelp them. A better design, which is patently clear the approach CCP is taking, is to stop the ability of bigger ships to kill smaller ships to reduce the oppressive gameplay caused by 1. The super light fighter tube reduction does precisely that as well as the nerfing of HAW guns for titans. We are partway to achieving a solution to 1. It’s worth noting that around 20 subcaps can kill a super which feels about right currently.

  3. Effectively the above resets the design so big ships kill big ships and small ships kill small ships.

  4. This still leaves the design lacking as the problem you then have is how do you trigger the capital escalation to allow the massive multi tril supercap battles, which we need to reduce the amount of caps in the game, to take place with all the free advertising press and new players they bring into the game. This is where Dreads come in, they are the 1 big ship that does very well against small ships. This leaves a healthy escalation chain as follows:

Small ship battle
1 side losing so they drop Dreads to counter the small ships
Opponent sees Dreads and escalates to Supers to deal with Dreads whelping their subcaps
Sometime later you can end up with both sides having supers,fax,titans on field in a massive battle.

The above gives each alliance different options and counter plays which add depth and thought which is engaging and supports all manner of playstyles from your subcap players to your titan players. There should be designs that CCP can shoot for that cater to all playstyles - as the more playstyles and choice there is to players in the sandpit, the healthier and more engaging the game.

Over to you! Keep it civil please.

You’re missing the point. It wasn’t an attack against you. I just want you to consider…

“If small ships cannot kill large ships there’s no reason to have them? That’s nonsense. The purpose of small ships is to kill small ships, the purpose of large ships is to kill large ships.”

…From a logical perspective.

A supercap isn’t special if everyone has one; then they just become the de facto norm.

Don’t tell me what you want me to consider. Have the confidence in whatever your belief is to put it on the table so I can reflect on it, you may change my mind. This slightly patronising “but only if you thought a bit harder you’d clearly arrive at my perspective” takes up too much time. Just say what you think makes for a better design, my cards are on the table here.

Completely agree with that, hence why I want to see more multi tril supercap whelps to bring down their numbers, they absolutely need to be special that also provides the longterm hook for people to want to fly them i talked about. The most enjoyable parts of the game for me are sending my supers into massive battles knowing today could be the day i lose most of my Eve net worth… And I do that willingly because I want to show solidarity with my alliance friends. UALX was the last time I had that chance, i was nervous, had serious pvp shakes and my voice cracked on comms as i jumped in… Loved it.

So the point of contention appears to be, you want to bring down the number of supers by allowing subcaps to whelp them, where I want to bring down the number by throwing them into massive battles published on the likes of PC Gamer. Think about it, if you wanted your 60b toy to go down in flames which way would you want it to happen? For me a massive battle is way more appealing.

The big alliances are desperate for reasons to whelp their toys in massive battles incidentally and we’ve been lobbying for it for a while, dropping on small mans is boring, we want conflict drivers to whelp our stuff.

Not really.

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That means the same thing.

God youre really trying to get offended, arent you?


No it doesn’t, he’s not actually explained what his alternative is.

This leaves me with very little to go on with respect to what he thinks makes for a better design.

Asking you consider a point is the same as “putting it on the table to reflect” on it.

It means the same thing and you just decided it was patronising cause you have a thin skin.


Why not? I’m quite up-front with the expression of my desires, so you should take solace in its sincerity.

No, that’s just your self-delusion.

That, or you’re a masochist. No one goes to battle giddy with the anticipation that they’ll ■■■■ up and die and lose a shitload of their assets. Everything is a risk/reward calculation, even if it’s made at a subconscious level.

No, I just want conflicts to not be decided by who can field more thousands of titans.

Those gaming media articles are all shilled anyway, and if you read their comments, they’re mocked mercilessly. Also, it’s my hobby to bring in new players into the game (I’ve given away countless starter pack keys to players) and teach them how to play, and very few mention anything about null-sec snoozefest titan blobs as their reason for trying out the game. And for the few for whom it is, after they find out that it will take them the better part of half a decade to get to that stage, they usually quit on the spot.

That’s just a red herring. All the supercap powers are aware that CCP gummed up their own game and are seeking ways to correct its course, so they’re trying to give a penny in the hopes that they won’t lose the entire dollar.

No one’s lobbying for their massively-expensive and resource-intensive assets to be “whelped” by anyone. It’s just one big bluff made while hoping that no one will call them out on it.


No. He’s asking me to look at my original post to try to arrive at what he thinks is wrong with it. He hasn’t actually suggested what he thinks is wrong with it i.e. he has not put a point of view on the table beyond “look at your original post again”.

You are extrapolating from what you think is the tone and not the content.

Otherwise you wouldnt have called it patronising, youd have called it “incorrect”

At the end of the day, what is it you are wanting?

Hire-A-Cap? Limited engagements?

Be more specific and you might get clearer consideration.


I was looking for the content, but did not find it.

I’ve explained exactly what I want, I’m awaiting the same in reply from @Destiny_Corrupted

So you do you feel or do you not feel a Cap’s primary purpose should be the engagement of other caps?