Level one missions even worth it?

New Citizens Q&A
1

Hello.

I’m a bit confused. Players recommend to start with level 1 missions and move up to level 4 ASAP. But I’m finding that in a frigate even the level 1 missions are quite tough. That, and the rewards are so freaking low compared to the storyline missions… how can I make this even profitable? I tried looking up the loyalty points you earn but it doesn’t give me a way to replace any frigates I accidentally lose at all. I’m just not sure how I am supposed to do this. I can type the whole list of events here that make me conclude the level 1 missions are not worth it but it will make this post too long. The point is I lost my Moa (long story but I knew I had to have something special for the upcoming boss battle of Sister of Eve epic arc). And perhaps it was a dumb decision to buy one but well. But I lost it. Then I had to fit my Merlin to start running level 1 missions. And right about when I thought I earned back my Merlin fitting, I lose my Merlin. I was already thinking about the low rewards from level 1 like does it even cover my ammo? But now that I unexpectedly lost my Merlin as well the rewards are not nearly enough for me to get better at the game and perhaps move up a level. Not quite sure what to do here. It’s getting a bit frustrating and all the work I put in yesterday ends up for nothing because I lost my Merlin.

I think the level one missions, compared to how low the rewards are… They should maybe even make more ISK than the storyline missions. But they don’t. In the storyline missions usually pay around 200 plus a 200 time bonus and in regular level one missions I get 60 plus 60 bonus. Wich is far too low IMO. They are perhaps even tougher than the storyline missions cause I’ve already faced destroyers and have at one point had my tracking disabled… As I said I was already wondering if it even paid for my ammo, untill I lost my Merlin wich made me sure that it wasn’t profitable.

So how are you going to move up from level 1 to perhaps level 2 if you also have to make the investment to upgrade ship? That’s going to take a long long time I think. Really like grinding… but… barely making enough to even pay for ammo.

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Missions in general are not worth it and not fun, don’t sink your sp into it, if you want high reward and fun do some research on probing and combat sites /ded’s a lot of fun and very rewarding, but hard :]

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There’s no natural way for a solo beginner to make enough ISK to get to the point they can “fly only what they can afford to lose”.

EVE is competitive. Early in the game, if there’s decent money to be made, someone much more efficient at it than you is already grinding all the ISK.

On the other hand, somewhere between where you are now and high-end play, there’s a point where the numbers start to work.

You can buy your way there (RL money -> PLEX -> ISK), but don’t aim too low. To get to where you can make money from L4 missions without breaking the “fly what you can afford to lose” rule costs billions of ISK

It depends on how you define “can afford to lose” of course. You have to make your version of a formula relating “Hours of PvE grinding to replace the ship used for that PvE” and “Number of PvE ships you expect to lose per hour of grinding”. Plug in L4 mission income (remember better ships are more expensive, but faster) and you’ll know what you need. Last time I did the calculation for myself it was 10 billion ISK. It might be as low a 2 or 3 billion for you, or it might be more.

EDIT: BTW the income/ship cost/risk calculation should always result in a suitable ship cost for what you’re doing at the time. Follow Makshima’s advice below (paraphrased) “don’t take a 2 Billion ISK ship into L1’s or L2’s” :slight_smile:
End of EDIT.

At some point you’ll be able to buy and fit smallish disposable PvP ships with T1 hulls and T2 modules.

A more efficient approach is to join a rich, well established Corp, or a Corp that likes teaching beginners. This is possible, but the path isn’t as straight and simple as it might be. Check out
Very well established teaching Corp:
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page
There may be others.

Corp recruitment:
https://forums.eveonline.com/c/corporations-alliances/recruitment-center

Beware of fake “beginner-friendly” Corps looking for slaves. They’re usually better at recruiting than real Corps (it’s easy to sound perfect if the story is made up /lol. If it turns out you’re being exploited, leave instantly, without talking to them. They’re not going to change their ways :slight_smile:

BTW - almost every income/hour estimate you see is likely to be at least double what it should be.

  • Anything based on an example is that person’s best hour ever at that activity
  • Anything that sounds like a serious estimate probably excludes some or all of the time to: set up, get there, salvage, collect rewards, and sell stuff
  • I’ve had someone base their ISK/hour estimate for L2 missions on ships that cost several billion ISK. This may have been “forum PvP” (I didn’t bother checking), but either way, the estimate wasn’t a good answer to a “rookie-context” question :slight_smile:

OTOH, if you get a chance to salvage L4 missions for someone who CBA spending the time on it, you can collect reasonably good data yourself. And make good money (by your current standards) while you do it.

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Don’t do this, fly cheaply until you learn game mechanic’s if you buy expensive stuff it will die within a week, unless you really know what you are doing.

Also if you have a ship that cost’s 2billion isk high sec gankers will just suacide bomb you and then you will be left with nothing, the guys suggesting this are more than likely those type of people looking for more people (Code) to be their victim’s.

You can literally buy a 2.5mil isk frigate (atron for example) and sit in a faction warefare plex (enemy plex) for 10 minutes and make 17.5mil, ship pay’s for it self in a single site.

Google signature tanking, as it will help a lot with not dying in site’s.

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level 1 security missions can be completed in almost any ship, even in a free corvette (with 2 civilian railguns). If you think they are too tough then better oneself: learn to fit ships better and fly better (keep enemy at your optimals and not theirs, kiting, speed tanking, etc.)

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Makshima
The information about getting ISK via PLEX isn’t a recommendation. It’s one of a list of options.

BTW I didn’t intend to recommend using e.g. a 2 billion ISK ship for L2’s or L3’s. I meant said to calculate the correct balance between ship cost, ISK income from PvE, and risk of ship loss. That calculation isn’t going to lead to chasing L2 Mission income in a billion-ISK ship.

It’s not clear to me why you see it’s an issue though. There’s a big RL cash -> PLEX -> ISK process in EVE which does essentually the same thing (i.e. it allows people whose ISK income doesn’t cover their demand for “EVE stuff” to get want they want).
It’s essentially the same thing as investing RL cash to get startup ISK for EVE.

If CCP doesn’t want this to happen, they should (among other things) increase the payoff for 1.0 Sec L1/L2/L3 missions.

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I miss read then, I thought you where saying to go big so that you can compete right from the get go.

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1mil or less properly fitted frigate (including ship itself 300k ship +300k fitting) is enough

payoff if fine for their difficulty.

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9

After completing the career missions, you should have a nice collection of ships from frigs to a destroyer. The destroyer is more than capable of doing L1 missions

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Ok - that explains a lot :slight_smile:

I’ll see if I can modify the original to make it clearer.

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You will be learning how to fly in Level 1 missions. In the normal T1 frigate provided by a Career Agent (a Punisher for Amarrian pilots) is very capable in Level 1 missions; a destroyer will hammer through them. If you are using the Corvette - the free beginners / insurance ship with civilian modules, you will struggle.
And a common struggle is understanding how to fit and fly ships - there’s a lot to understand and everyone will scream expensive fits at you when a functional ship for level 1 missions is only a million or so ISK.
AKA a couple of Ventures of ore, or a the profit on a few reasonable industry Jobs.

Mission learning is how to manage incoming damage by using speed and prioritising targets. You’ll make income from mission rewards, LP, bounties on pirate NPCs, salvaging and looting wrecks.
If you’re spending more on ammunition to kill a ship than the value of the ship you are doing it wrong - T1 ammo is cheap (5 ISK per or so), bounty on an NPC frigate is a few thousand ISK. You can often get loot that doubles that.

Don’t for those love of God over think this. The ISK will come, but not always from the sources you are concentrating on (says the industrialist!).

The standing increase you get with the NPC corp you are running for is what unlocks higher level missions. You’ll find that you are able to buy a bigger ship for Level 2 missions (a medium weapon fitted cruiser) when you are ready for it.

Initial income is never amazing, but steady. But you shouldn’t loose ships too often - I still make mistakes, normally though over confidence.
I remember saving to buy an Arbitrator.
I remember buying an Impel - that felt expensive!
Now I don’t even sweat the odd hundred million ISK: and I almost exclusively fly in hi-sec.

You are in New Eden for the long run, the satisfaction is growing and living here not in “instant win”.

Feel free to reach out in game to me and if we can fix it up I’ll fly out on higher level missions with you and see how I can help you survive and fly.

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Ok well I have to update though. Because I thought buying a replacement Merlin was going to cost a lot more than 200k. Wich is what I got it for just now. Exactly 200k. So maybe it isn’t as bad as I thought. Maybe if I can stay more economical on the fit then I can still turn a small profit.

So that’s the update, I mistook the price for the ship.

Edit: Wich is the same reason why I thought I could buy the Moa but well we know how that ended lol.

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There has been a lot of good advice here already, but we definitely want to help and answer some questions.

But first a I think we need a little information. L1 missions should not be popping your ships, especially a Moa. I don’t mean to sound rude there, but something is amiss and we can help if you can give us a little more info.

  1. How long have you been playing?
  2. Have you completed the tutorial and the Career Agent Missions yet?
  3. Can you post the fitting that you were using on your ships when you lost them?
  4. Can you tell us a bit about how you were going about the fight and how you died?

Don’t feel bad and don’t get discouraged- the learning curve of the game is a steep one, and as @Terak_Romaller mentions, learning how to fly and fit your ships is one of the more complex (but interesting) parts of the game.

If you can give us some more info, we can give you some pointers or point you toward other resources for info that will help you.

And welcome to EVE :slight_smile:

o7

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I have only been playing 3 weeks or so now. But I played before earlier, about a year ago. Completed the career agents then and also Sister of Eve Epic Arc, but wanted to try over. So now I have done the career agents (all of them) and am at the mission Burning the hive at the Sister of Eve Epic Arc. Lost my Moa there because the drones got me trapped and I didn’t have any weapons for close range so I was slowly being destroyed without being able to do anything about it. I couldn’t hit them anymore. When I began that mission I tried flying towards them and then away again (kiting) but I got too close and they caught me. So that’s how I got destroyed.

Then I lost the Merlin at level one missions. It was called Worlds Collide. This time I was suddenly taking a lot more damage then I thought and wanted to warp out but I bumped into structures a few times wich prevented me from warping out and that way I got destroyed there as well. And I wanted to take my Merlin and get back up to 13 mill-ish and buy a Moa again. So I wanted to earn my Moa back but then lost my Merlin and had to gain that one back together with the fit and everything. So it kept going down for me for a while wich is the reason why I eventually posted about the level one missions.

But the fit was pretty expensive. So that’s probably why I barely got it earned back before I was destroyed in my expensive Merlin. Still don’t know what made me get that much damage suddenly but it was too late.

I completed the tutorial and the career agent missions (all of them). And so I was busy with the Sister of Eve Epic Arc, then wanted to recover my losses and lost even more and then ended up posting here. But I guess it’s probably the fit that made it expensive. But replacing a Merlin for 200k I didn’t expect that.

Edit:
I’ve got the Merlin fit by the way and it’s the first one in the link here (from Boldly Gone):

It wasn’t exactly that in the end, I made some small changes but I bought nearly everything of it and it was relatively (compared to 200k for the ship) expensive… IMO.

Edit 2: However I did calculate the Merlin as something that could happen more often. While the fit was pretty strong and I did have some bad luck in it as well. So if I was to lose a Merlin every 18 missions or something (it was) together with losing the fit it would be quite expensive. I got the storyline mission and it said I would receive 27k with a time bonus of 20k as well. Wich is far too low if I continue these kind of fits.

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Cool, that definitely helps get a sense of where you are and what you’ve tried. Boldly Gone knows his stuff and is a great player, but that particular fitting requires some specific tactics.

Rails are longer-range weapons and webs are shorter range utilities. The intention there is that you use the rails to take out things as they approach you and if they get too close so they are “getting under your guns”, you can throw the webs on them so you can still hit them if they get too close. But a big part of that fit is managing your range and trying to keep things from getting too close in the first place. That means moving around to try to keep things out in your optimal range and is a technique called “kiting”. Something I would suggest there is swapping one of the webs and the shield extender for mission-specific shield hardeners. That will increase your resistance and also eliminate the signature increase that the extender will give you. Also, the MWD there will make you go a lot faster, but your signature blooms by 500%, so you will essentially be a 500x larger target while it is running. Either swapping to an afterburner or only using the MWD to quickly burn out to range then turning it off will help a lot.

You can learn more about the missions and what kind of damage to expect in EVE Survival:

https://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage

Also, one thing to remember in EVE is that bigger is not always better with ships. This is where skills will begin to make a huge difference. As you get into bigger ships, you will generally be a bigger, slower target so looking at things like EHP can be a little misleading- it might look like you have more tank, but since the rats might be able to hit you more easily, you might wind up being worse off flying a larger ship with lower skills than a frigate or destroyer with better skills.

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A small trick you can use to track better with long range weapons is set your keep at range to 100km’s so when you web something small you cant hit, you can then keep at range from it while webbing to hit it much better.

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Did you mean 10 Km?

If not, I want that web! :wink:

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Na 100, its better to not set the exact distance or your ship moves back and forward on its on, better to approach again when you get to far or double click in space.

Making it 100 makes it so when ever you hit the button you always move away.

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Oh, I see what you’re saying. Cool!

I thought you had found the most magical mutated web ever made! :slight_smile:

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Question about standings, if you don’t mind me tagging along in this thread: What are the standings for with individual agents? Any reason to get them to a perfect 10? I figured you basically just use them to get to better and higher level agents and that was it.

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