[LOAN] 250b, 5-7%, 6 months, noncollateralized

Marketplace Market Discussions
1

Terms
I am seeking a loan from the frequenters of the MD forums for the total amount of 250b ISK. The duration of this loan will be six months from the start date. The start date is the date on which the entire sum of the Loan has been received by me and will be announced in the thread. Payments will be made to creditors at the end of each 30-day period after the start date. Interest is calculated at the specified rate per 30-day period based on the remaining principal balance at the start of the respective period. Any remaining balance on the principals will be paid with the final interest payment at the end of the sixth and final 30-day period. Balances owed will be made public by an edit to this post (creditors wishing to remain anonymous may do so via request by mail)

The loan amount may be paid by a single individual or by up to no more than twenty-five parties. All amounts pledged should be multiples of 10 billion ISK. Iā€™m offering a tiered structure for creditors. Creditors lending more benefit from higher interest rates, amortization structuring of the loan for reduced risk, and preferred payment preference in the event of default and liquidation.

Tiers:

  • Basic: 10b-40b loaned. 5% monthly interest on remaining balance. Principal paid in full at the end of the final period.

  • Gold: 50-90b loaned. 5% monthly interest on remaining balance. Option for principal to be paid at maturity or for the loan to be repaid via an amortized structure.

  • Platinum: 100b or more loaned. 6% monthly interest on remaining balance. Option for amortization.

  • Diamond: 250b (the entire loan). 7% monthly interest on remaining balance. Option for amortization.

Interested parties should post below stating: Tier, Amount, and specification for traditional or amortizing payments (if applicable).

Background
Iā€™m a member of Hard Knocks Inc. Those of you familiar with the nulsec and wormhole metas will know that we are the dominant power in wormhole space and highly effective in PvP in nulsec and wormholes. Our strength in wormholes has given us a strong hold over the most profitable space in EVE: C6 space. Our members are permitted and encouraged to make use of the income here. It has been extremely profitable for us. Currently, I own and have been operating a C6 wormhole for the past 8 months. I have extensive knowledge and experience operating here. Iā€™m currently interested in taking on an additional C6 wormhole to hit an income level necessary for achieving several long term monetary objectives. Running high end wormhole sites efficiently and effectively requires multiple well skilled capital pilots and some hefty infrastructure. The income is excellent but the up-front costs are high.

Rationale for MD Loan
A C6 wormhole provides an average profit of 70b per month from blue loot and salvage in a time efficient manner. A quality operation requires multiple dreadnought pilots, citadels, and well fit capitals. Depending upon skill point prices, characters available for sale, and wormhole connectivity, the cost of a complete setup for a new C6 ranges between 200-240b. With the overhead I have from my current EVE ā€œlifestyleā€ it would take six months to accrue the funds necessary for the second C6 from my current one. Waiting that amount of time to get setup represents an opportunity cost of 315-350b ISK after accounting for interest payments to be made on this loan.

Plan
I already have a wormhole selected with scouts seeded. Once funds are accrued, my first seven days will be dedicated to establishing citadels, acquiring or injecting new characters, and bringing all requisite supplies, ships, and fits in to the wormhole. All new characters will be placed on existing omega accounts and represent no additional overhead costs. After establishing all of this, I should be left with enough ISK on the principal to handle any ā€˜catastrophic eventsā€™ (historically, such events are extremely rare for Hard Knocks). Iā€™ll run the sites for the duration of the loan and pay everyone their due. (And continue running them after that, of course)

Default and Liquidation
In the event that something catastrophic and unforeseen occurs (Hard Knocks implodes after six years of resounding success, something terrible happens irl that forces me to stop playing, etcā€¦) I will do my best to repay everyone. In such a case I will liquidate the capital assets for this operation (characters, ships, etc) to pay back principals. I have personal reserve funds that can go toward covering any deficits remaining post-liquidation. As mentioned previously, on default, repayment preference will be to the largest creditors first.

2

So there must be some rich members there, why arenā€™t you borrowing from them?

Donā€™t you have unused assets you can put up as collateral? Itā€™d save you a lot in interest payments.

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3

So there must be some rich members there, why arenā€™t you borrowing from them?

Money is a means for us, not an end. There a few members that sit on a substantial amount of liquid but for the most part members have high levels of income but nowhere near this level of liquid wealth. We use our cash. On top of that, itā€™s not strictly prohibited to give inter-corp loans but thereā€™s a stigma against itā€¦ We trust each other but no one wants to open up an avenue for internal drama, even if itā€™s unlikely to come to that.

Donā€™t you have unused assets you can put up as collateral? Itā€™d save you a lot in interest payments.

I have assets but nothing unused that is near this amount. No BPOs or big idle reserves. My assets are mostly in ships, citadels, and characters, which get used regularly. The interest payments are 1-1.5 months of income at this rate. Iā€™m happy to pay that if I can get this operation going faster.

4
  • You should be give or take 500b atleast over the last 8 months ?
  • Are you really losing that much isk worth of ships?
  • And not enough to cover some of the 250b yourself ?

Iā€™ve never done C6 WHs so Iā€™m taking a shot in the dark here on these next questions

  • How many characters does it take per C6 wh to make 70b a month?
  • Can you multibox 2 sets of C6 WH characters ?
  • Do you have enough time to run 2 C6 WH while still fulfilling your alliance requirements ?
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5

So youā€™re telling me that youā€™ll pay back 250 bil in 6 months when you couldnā€™t save up 250 bil in 8 months?

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Nope, he said

250+ all interests

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7

Well at the very least 300 bil worth of meaningful collateral.

8

@Brock_Khans

You should be give or take 500b atleast over the last 8 months ?

Correct

Are you really losing that much isk worth of ships?

Not at all. My PvE related losses over that time are maybe 300m, probably less.

And not enough to cover some of the 250b yourself

Itā€™s not quite how I believe youā€™re perceiving it. As I replied to a previous inquirer, for us in HK, isk is a means to an end, specifically PvP. The money Iā€™ve made each month gets allocated: plexing accounts, running multiple character training on over a dozen characters, paying for ships ranging from frigates and T3Cs to super carriers, and injecting and purchasing characters. The way that we PvP is alt heavy and expensive. I do keep enough liquid for day to day operations/losses and a modest reserve in the event of catastrophe. But otherwise, no, I havenā€™t held on to excess money as Iā€™ve always had a purpose for it.

Regarding your next set of questions, our specific methods are ā€œproprietaryā€ (for lack of a better phrase) but Iā€™ll answer your questions as best I can with that in mind.

How many characters does it take per C6 wh to make 70b a month?

Due to spawn mechanics, income out of a single wormhole is ultimately site limited. You can technically run with a single dreadnought character and scanner. But this is unsafe and extremely inefficient. An optimal setup will utilize 3-6 capitals depending on the wormhole environment.

Can you multibox 2 sets of C6 WH characters?

Simultaneously? No. Running in a single hole already demands a significant amount of multiboxing. Each hole would be run at separate times.

Do you have enough time to run 2 C6 WH while still fulfilling your alliance requirements ?

Yes

9

@Zahara_Cody

when you couldnā€™t save up 250 bil in 8 months?

Itā€™s not a matter of ability, simply what priorities were at the time. I get the impression that the difference in culture between MD and PvP groups are causing a misunderstanding here. As I replied above twice now, money isnā€™t an end for us. We donā€™t make money to have it. It is a means to further our scope and ability to PvP. The majority of that money is still very much part of my net worth. But it isnā€™t in something that is easily usable as collateral. It is mostly in skillpoints and characters with the remainder in ships, all of which are used frequently.

My ability to save isnā€™t a point of contention at all. Thatā€™s how I set up my current C6 and, if need be, how I will establish my second. However, if I can secure a loan now, I will be that much further ahead than if I were to spend the time saving. And, the creditors get their respective dues as well.

10

Appreciate the answers so far.

To me it feels like you are putting all the Risk on the investor.

So yes, you could fund this yourself, but you want to expedite the process.

Without any collateral at all (even 20-50%) the investor is the only one who loses.

Looking at your corp history, HK is the longest corp youā€™ve been in for a while, I think the bigger risk is not that HK closes, but that you move to another Corp at which point Iā€™m assuming youā€™d evac your C6, since HK seems to have pilots seeded in all of them.

I think for an investor bite, you will have to put up some % of collateral. This is my opinion, you may still find someone who isnā€™t concerned about that.

Best of luck

11

Thanks for the advice, Brock. I appreciate the points that you made. They were a concern when I considered this option.

Though I absolutely love HK and wonā€™t be leaving!

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Youā€™ll have to change your philosophy on saving isk to attract investors. Typically someone who makes more money tends to spend more money as well.

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I canā€™t see why anyone would invest in you when youā€™re asking such a large amount with no prior borrowing history. This alone makes the (already low) interest rate irrelevant.

To really attract any serious attention, youā€™re going to have to put up collateral. If you have the know-how to establish a farmhole, and are in Hard Knocks, itā€™s hard to believe you do not have ANY assets that can be used as collateral.

14

This guy is looking for a diamond in the roughā€¦ he came to the wrong placeā€¦ I can easily fund 16 of these wormholes atm without breaking a sweatā€¦ but iā€™ll be damned if he gets a dime from me.

15

Got the inspiration for this from Shanq? Market Discussions is a bit more sceptical than Jita local but you might find that one guyā€¦ Maybe neverodd has some money left? He surely wonā€™t miss this isk as he is making 500m isk ticks.

16

Hereā€™s your MD participation ribbon.

17

Hard Knocks members have been scamming with their C6s for quite some time, with a recent popularity increase due to Shanq. Making investors aware of that is worth a comment to meā€¦

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After anyone is foolish enough to fill this loan, all attempts at contact will be met with ā€œBlah blah blehā€ as a response, no doubt

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