Main War declaration thread

[Madlightning]

a rough idea for reforming War dec system

(sorry also alittle sleepy ill edit over the next few hours

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Ideas on how to alter mechanics that you think need changing belong in Features and Ideas.

[Markus_Reinhart]

The solution to wars is really simple but lets just have CCP and the CSM decide what happens to wars, because they know best :lol:

[Madlightning]

thank you i didn’t see that

[Solecist_Project]

How much time did you spend thinking on this?

[Yiole_Gionglao]

Short version: corporations who start a war on another corporation and it is not mutual are forbidden to dock/undock in high security systems (neither stations nor structures nor mobile depots; CONCORD would disable the option based on pilot license), forcing them to either set up a base in LS/WH/NS or refit/resupply/repair/reship in space using the tools already available. Thus non-mutual agressors would be operating like a marching army, with exposed logistic chains (neutral ships can’t assist them, they need to bring their own helper ships from their base thus making them vulnerable to attack). Also means that a character who starts a war on a unwilling target is comitted to it unless he uses an alt.

This would be independent of the general wardec mechanic, it could work either with the current model or a different one. The aim is to force aggressors into a onerous commitment, thus making non-consensual wardecs dependant on actual commitment to fighting them. Conversely, the aggressed corporation would enjoy the benefits of operating in friendly territory since they could use HS services normally.

Oh, and what about mutual wars? They remain the same, both sides can use HS at will.

[erg_cz]

@Yiole_Gionglao

Short version: corporations who start a war on another corporation and it is not mutual are forbidden to dock/undock in high security systems (neither stations nor structures nor mobile depots; CONCORD would disable the option based on pilot license), forcing them to either set up a base in LS/WH/NS or refit/resupply/repair/reship in space using the tools already available. Thus non-mutual agressors would be operating like a marching army, with exposed logistic chains (neutral ships can’t assist them, they need to bring their own helper ships from their base thus making them vulnerable to attack). Also means that a character who starts a war on a unwilling target is comitted to it unless he uses an alt.

This would be independent of the general wardec mechanic, it could work either with the current model or a different one. The aim is to force aggressors into a onerous commitment, thus making non-consensual wardecs dependant on actual commitment to fighting them. Conversely, the aggressed corporation would enjoy the benefits of operating in friendly territory since they could use HS services normally.

Oh, and what about mutual wars? They remain the same, both sides can use HS at will.

Why? The whole point of high sec war dec is that you can operate in high sec, with all you have there.

[Yiole_Gionglao]

…unless you’re 99% of wardec targets. Let’s balance that out a bit, no matter how wardec mechanics shift.

[Black_Pedro]

This is impractical and makes little sense. I want to push someone out of the ice belt in the system I consider mine, or remove a Raitaru that is jacking up the industry indices? I have to move to lowsec, then come back to my home to fight them? And given ships and goods can be traded, looted, shared, and boarded in space, neutrals would completely circumvent what ever you are trying to accomplish.

-1 and please post in the correct sub-forum next time.

[Nicolai_Serkanner]

@Yiole_Gionglao

…unless you’re 99% of wardec targets. Let’s balance that out a bit, no matter how wardec mechanics shift.

You don’t balance out any thing.

[Giddy_McFee]

All these recent posts about wardecs are getting irritating now. How about the people being the non mutual part of the dec becoming informed, find out best practice ie, dont go to your high sec trade hub in your freighter, instead use out of corp alts to move equipment.

leaning how to deny your foe kills so that they get bored and move on.

moving to low/null sec yourself in order and set up a temp base there so you can still play the game and again denying them kills.

In my experience, most wardecs are blanket opportunistic wardecs that people place i n order to get opportunistic kills at trades hubs, learn how to counter them

If someone is after your citadel then sure it is a bit different, but then you should really learn about the mechanics of the game and know that people can wardec you, But if you start a corp, and get a citadel etc, then the CEO should make themselves aware of wardecs, what can happen and have a plan.

This is not a game for being wrapped up in cotton wool, you need to improvise, adapt and overcome, not bleat like schoolkids

[Nevyn_Auscent]

When the very first suggestion you post is alts… that says how bad the mechanic is.

[Giddy_McFee]

@Lucas_Kell

Highsec wardeccers will always target the uninformed though, that’s the whole point, highsec wardeccers aren’t looking for an even match. You can’t expect people to just know stuff, not can you expect every player to want to try to engage in futile combat with a bunch of veterans with years of experience.

I don’t expect people to just know stuff, but if your wardecced then surely you think to yourself “what this, ill go find some information on it” and then go out and find some information about it, ask people, there are people in this game that like to help and will offer advise. Then the next time it happens you know what to do better.

@Lucas_Kell

They do, that’s the current problem. They deny kills by not playing the game.

They don’t need to stop playing the game though, they just need to find other ways, against asking people, searching for information online. etc.

@Lucas_Kell

Unless you’re a ganker or wardeccer, then you seem to think they should be wrapped in cotton wool and protected from anythign that might make their gameplay even remotely challenging

Not sure what you are saying here, i am not a ganker or wardeccer. what am I saying here that indicates that i WANT people wrapped i n cotton wool and protected from anything that makes there gameplay challenging.

I am saying to people that are wardecced, get informed, avoid the wardeccers so you CAN play the game when it becomes more challenging.

[Solecist_Project]

Are you being moody again?

[Yiole_Gionglao]

Guys, this is not about wardecs, but about the cost of war for aggressor corps. About what are they willing to put in the line and it being riskier than a opt-out for suicide ganking.

[Giddy_McFee]

@Lucas_Kell

They don’t need to stop playing the game though, they just need to find other ways, against asking people, searching for information online. etc.

They dont though, yes things are different if you have infrastructure like a citadel maybe but if your a random corp in high sec then there is nothing to bind you to that system, move to low temporarily until the wardec passes, most deccers dont go to low or null sec

@Lucas_Kell

What I’m saying here is that people like you like to frequently talk about how we shouldn’t make things too easy for people, and yet gankers and wardeccers have an incredibly easy time because the mechanics are balanced in their favour, yet any suggestion to make that harder is met with hostility. So in that regard, if you are fighting against changes that would make it harder to be a wardeccer, you are suggesting we continue to keep wardeccers wrapped in cotton wool.

I am not denying that the system is broken, but all the options ever presented are flawed and unworkable, you cannot really have a situation where you can only wardec if conditions A B and C are met, (or not wardec unless conditions A, B and C are met), its either you can wardec, or you cannot wardec really. Do you really think this suggested on this thread is viable… the wardeccer has to move to low or null? that’s nuts.

@Lucas_Kell

You can - if you want to fight against a bunch of people who are undoubtedly more experienced in fighting than you are and inevitably lose your stuff for absolutely no gain. Defenders gain nothing from fighting back, in fact they are actually more likely to get decced again if they feed aggressors

I am not saying fight them, quite the opposite, im saying don’t fight them, avoid them move away from the area, even if temporary, not everyone has to drop corp jsut a coupleof alts if you need things from trade hubs do whatever you need to do, I agree don’t fight them as yes it will feed them and they will extend the wardec.

I think you are deliberately misinterpreting what I am saying … but what is your solution to it all then? My main has been in corps that have had tons of wardecs, i never logged off and stopped playing, we took action, we got informed, sure you may get a couple of loses but soon they get bored and move on. althe while I still played the game.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

What about all this wardec ideas by people who don’t do wardecs and don’t even play the game? Do you actually think your opinion is of any interest to anyone?

[Yiole_Gionglao]

It’s not an opinion. It’s a idea and it goes in a direction I haven’t seen explored before. Many ideas about limiting the abbility to wardec depend on numbers and are gamable. This idea is based on behavior and is a more effective way to increase the cost of wardeccing.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

It’s a super stupid idea and it adds nothing to the gameplay. It simply restricts a specific thing for the aggressor. It is neither creative nor will it solve anything for anyone.

[Veryez]

Actually a very interesting idea, but could be bypassed by having an alt fly in highsec with something like an orca and re-shipping there. Nonetheless, with some tweaking it could be made to work. I believe CCP is going to go much more draconian, as I get the impression this is a very serious problem.

For all those recommending ways around the current wardec mechanics, I suggest you actually read the CSM minutes. Getting an alt, staying away from trade hubs, counter attacking, whatever - aren’t working for newer players. Here are the facts presented in the CSM minutes:

1. Highsec wars greatly favor the attacker (i.e. the attacker has little to no risk).

2. The predominant response to being wardec’d for newer players is to log off and stay logged off (i.e. leave the game)

3. CCP is not happy with this current situation.

4. This is having a significant impact on new player recruitment and retention.

A few nights ago, I spent 2 hours teaching some new players, simple things like how to set a destination, how to check prices, to buy and sell things. How to search out of game for good prices, what skills to train to better fit their ship, etc. So what exactly could they do against a wardec? They had neither the resources, nor skills to provide even a noticeable challenge. They might actually have a couple frigates, maybe one cruiser - so they should lose every ship they own in a futile attempt to give battle? When your ‘best’ advice is to not join a group of friends, but to stay in the ‘starter’ corp and take the time needed to learn how to play - the game isn’t working. It’s not about ‘protecting’ newer players from EvE, it’s about allowing them time to actually learn the game and get ‘hooked’ on it like the rest of us.