Manufacturing, is it only for the "big boys"

I do only T1.

One of my overall most profitable items for over 2 years is…

I bought the blueprint for 5M, and fully improved it.

It has ups and downs and makes nice ISK.

It’s true that my biggest ticket items (though not necessarily highest “Profit Factor”) have taken several years to build…but the journey’s been worth it.

It’s all there for the taking…just got to do the work.

Real Big Boys (aka Oldfags) have T2 BPOs
so they have “ISK printing device”

no matter how hard you try, you suck.

You don’t really know what you’re talking about as far as your t2 bpo claim. Only on a few low volume tech 2 items is the price controlled by BPO owners. BPOs make it easier to gain isk manufacturing but are not required and are not the norm.

yea…
and all that “WTS WTB T2 bpo” discussions are FAKE NEWS!

Nobody uses Risk Free T2 BPO ISK printing machines…
(just because you told so…)

for ex. "I have t2 berserker 10/20 BPO… i do not use it! every time i play invention lottery and sell result for 4% profit!! "

Which by definition means it’s of no use to the (unmentioned but nonetheless present) “little guy” looking to get in on the action of the OP’s question.

For this kind of tool to be of any use to anyone it more-or-less presumes that the anyone in question has a very large, very expensive, pretty much all encompassing library of fully researched blueprints at their disposal.

It’s not a tool for the little guy.

And interesting as it is I feel it doesn’t really help answer the OP’s question :slightly_smiling_face:

Unless your trying to say the answer is yes? which I’d disagree with… I feel there are niches where the little guy can turn a profit, not a big one & maybe too small to interest our OP but they are there.

Define: small guy as one person who enjoys buying raw materials and adding value (through time-measured labor and/or intellectual effort) and watching one’s net worth grow over time.

If by “compete” one means “earn trillions per month” then, no, a single producer cannot earn trillions per month.

@Markus_Jameson

“which by definition….”

On the contrary, it is the only way for the small guy to compete with the big guys. The basic formulation I gave above was and remains (as far as I know) @SJ_Astralana 's unique contribution to the game.

“it more-or-less presumes…”

In fact, it presumes the exact opposite. Here is the “Market Research” report which shows “Profit Factor.” This report does not depend on owning any of the listed blue prints…it looks only at actual market data for a given trade location. Naturally, the most valuable Profit Factors are some of the more expensive BPO’s but there is plenty of true profit to be made from modestly priced BPOS. In practice, this list can change daily and over a short period of time I was able to isolate my starter BPOS (those worth 5M, not 5B) and got started. I reinvested profits along the way. I build only T1

The complete Market Research report contains a thousand items that actually changed hands within the last 24 hours in a familiar trading station

The general notion is expressed here:

The software which does this is still available here (but takes some significant work to get it running and will need significant modifications when the XML API is retired.

@Giddy_McFee

You can “compete” but there is no free lunch. If you are willing to use either use real world cash OR real-world time AND demonstrably effective algorithms to determine what to build and when, you can fulfill, well, the definition I give above.

The software which does this is still available here (but takes some significant work to get it running and will need significant modifications when the XML API is retired.

OR just use the notion and the now several google sheets interfaces into the ESI api and build your own. Everything you need can be done with the google sheets listed here and do not require knowledge of programming or ESI

There are healthy profits to be had in T1 manufacturing, even if building in a NPC station.

i see you have huge diarhea of words…

  1. if you have T2 Berserked BPO, you CAN make Billions a month without any risks and almost zero efforts

  2. your table shows Raven production is profitable which is total BS

  3. you story about magical “demonstrably effective algorithms” [… offensive profanity is removed…]

yea… you can eat bread crumbs from BIG BOYS TABLE

It looks like the information has been posted twice, however the spreadsheet goes to show that you need some ability in order to code or program or develop tools to be able to harvest information about the locality where you want to trade.

I don’t have that ability, I have the game client and the (to me) clumsy “tools” that it provides as well as looking at individual items in places like eve market data etc.

I don’t mind putting in the effort if I knew where to put that effort, but with knowledge hard to come by becuase of peoples (understandable) reluctance to give information means I may as well run explo sites and get 100m loot to sell, or simply rat.

I agree with you.

Takes loads of time to make a correct program, test it, and enhance it.

The time investment is very important.

You can rent, I guess, some program.
You can join, I guess an industry corp to participate.

I still don’t think this is an easy task, nor fun, unless you invested enough time/money to get yourself the tools required for it.

TBH the only economical way to make money with a T2 BPO these days is to flip it for more than you paid. They’re a horrible investment if you intend to actually do production.

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And if you have a little Brain, you can produce T2 BPCs from T2 BPO,
and have total control over market.

So I take it this isn’t a topic you actually know anything about. Cool.

Your production capacity is still constrained to the maximum copy rate, so your overall production for all but the least popular items is still never going to approach being able to fulfill market demand.

Let’s look at the example of a Berserker II BPO you were prattling on about earlier. The copy time in a T2 Raitaru with max skills/no implant is 968 seconds (16m 8s). We’ll go ahead and round it in your favor and say it only takes 15 minutes. You can make 4 copies per hour. 96 per day. 2880 per month.

Now let’s look at the market for Berserker IIs. If we limit ourselves to just the Jita market, the slowest day in the last month sold 646 (that’s today, which isn’t over yet) and the fastest sold 2816.

Care to explain how we’re going to have “total control over the market” when, even with copying, our highest rate of production generates only a fraction of the quantity demanded for a single hub, let alone the rest of the universe?

Meanwhile, you have an absurd sum of money tied up in the BPO - money that could be doing almost anything else and yielding a better return.

If you’re still dumb enough to think that T2 BPOs are a good investment, there’s a solution for that: Get on out there and buy yourself one.

There is one scenario in which they make sense: If you have so much ISK that you just can’t effectively put it all to work any other way, then a T2 BPO could maybe be attractive. For the most part, they’re just collector’s items these days.

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Unfair!

You used your maths.

Nerf maths!

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It’s also worth noting that, afaik, copying doesn’t actually save you anything wrt to T2 BPOs. The base time is a little shorter than manufacturing. 20% shorter, in fact…

…The amount covered by TE research.

You have a strange way of looking at economics.

Unless I’m perhaps taking a little bit of a larger thought process completely out of context. hard to see how mind, really can’t be bothered to read it all, not after hitting a line as (seemingly … to me) ludicrous (in the context of the position you appear to hold?) as that.

A supply constricted to below demand is always a (very, very) good thing for profit margins.

Try this again in English.

Maybe stop licking that window long enough to realize that we’re talking about one person’s own production capacity, and not the overall supply of the system?

Additionally, the claim being responded to was that a BPO could be used to control the market via copies. I was responding specifically to this claim. It’s false because, A: Copying doesn’t actually improve production rate for T2 BPOs, and, B: For all but the most useless items, the production capacity of a T2 BPO falls well short of demand.

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It is, take some classes or something, your inadequate grasp of the language isn’t my problem :wink:

Obviously a dumb assertion if that’s really what was said, having a BPO never lets you control a market unless it’s the only BPO & to say otherwise is stupid.

Huh! it was what was said.

said here