Looking for Industry Feedback

I am starting to gather information from industry oriented folks to bring up with CCP for both immediate discussion and possibly a presentation at the CSM Summit in 2020.

No promises that anything can be delivered, but the first step is gathering the indy community’s ideas.

Feel free to comment here with questions, concerns, glitches, bottlenecks, requests, and other ideas you may have.

You can also contact me directly:
Twitter: @dunkdinkle
Discord: Dunk Dinkle#1095
Email: dunkdinkle@gmail.com

I will also be doing some livestream chats in the future for realtime discussion.

2 Likes

Hi Dunk,

I think a little things pass on industry skills would be nice.

From my little things post:

Suggestion: Add T3 items and ships to the “Required for” tab of skill show info tool tips.

Keywords: show info, required for, t3c, industry, skills, tool tip
Note: Tech 3 destroyers, Tech 3 subsystems, and Tech 3 cruisers do not show up in the “Required for” tab of skills. This includes Advanced Medium Ship Construction V, Advanced Small Ship Construction V, Jury Rigging V, Industry V, Invention skills etc.

1 Like

Limit build/research/reaction slots on citadels / Engineering complexes / Refineries, and make E-C & Refinery able to fit multiple service modules of those types but increasing the fuel consumption of all the modules by a factor of 4.

So you can chose to produce hardcore in 1 structure, but it comes at a cost :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Shareable station containers similar to the way the new shareable bookmarks work. Let me create an ACL for a station container so the people I choose can access the container without needing a separate corporation just to share materials between industry characters.

9 Likes

On the PI side of things, when you drop a factory there is a pulsating circle, it pulsates out from the edge making it difficult to get factories close, can it change to pulsate inwards

2 Likes

Allow Athanors and Tataras to harvest moon goo semi passively. Much less than if you actually harvested it yourself but still something

1 Like

most of the replys i see here are about restricting what you can do in citadels. i want to make the citadels safer to use and leave them alone after that. meaning, medium citadels should have better defenses. go back to the invulnerability that they once had too. that’d stop people from pot shotting citadels. right now citadels are a losing proposition in hisec and the price is headed to the bottom right now. please help out the little guy here and set some realistic rules and again…make them better defended. i saw one guy mention limiting lines in citadels…pfffft. even already had that and it caused back ups from hell if you don’t remember. couldn’t get in to do research and production lines were almost as rare. we want to go forward not back.

Revamping station containers for sure, especially making them shareable or being able to share access like how they did the recent bookmark changes. Also a skill that increases the return from unrefined reactions to actually make them worth the fuel it costs to make them instead of taking a 45% loss every time and that is IF you have Scrap Metal V.

1 Like

This is a tricky one because it involves profit margins and a “race to the bottom” on tax amounts. A Engineering Complex is currently a isk sinkhole. Unless you have thousands of transactions happen per day the cost of fuel drastically outweighs the job taxes you’ll pull in. If you raise taxes in your upwell the business will just go elsewhere.

Again, I don’t know a solution or if there should be one, but a freeport engineering complex currently isn’t viable for profit by a long shot.

Industry slots seriously need to be limited again, at the very least for capitals (capital parts included) and up.

Apart from that:

Tooltips in the indu window need to be realigned. They always get in the way.

Taxation is a good point. Even in nullsec with industrial complexes and/or coordinated structure efforts, the taxing of most structures can in fact not even cover fuel bill, let alone the cost for the rigging of the structures in a meaningful way

1 Like

The triglavian loot tables could have a good looking at, most items currently on sale are way below production cost.

Finding a facility with specific rigs for manufacuring with the current interface is clumsy; you scroll and hover over the icons of endless stations to compare the rigs/tax/cost index.

The naming of most upwell structure elements is terribly long and contains pointless boilerplate. “Standup M-Set Advanced Medium Ship Manufacturing Material Efficiency I” could be shortened to “M-Set Medium Tech 2 Ship Material Efficiency I”

The item groups which effected by a specific rig could be a lot clearer. Capital components seem to be missing from the “supported types” list.

Also +1 for the person mentioning earlier in this thread about adding more items and skills to their respective “required for” tabs.

I feel that standup techII rigs are not worth their current pricepoint. ROI is too long.

Ability to have the multibuy window set buy orders, instead of buying from sell orders would be nice.

1 Like

PI:

  • remove the delay for Expedited Transfers
  • make it possible to remotely move items between Launchpad and POCO
  • possibly increase capacity of Launchpad / Storage Facility / POCO
  • add remote administration for POCO (view/edit taxes) for POCO owners
  • make it possible to show remotely POCO information for non-owners

Manufacturing:

  • reduce or abolish effect of system cost index on the job cost
  • possibly make more of the job cost go to the owner of the facility
2 Likes

The absurd part about taxation, is that it is applied to the job cost, so after the system index.
formula is :

  • job_cost = (100+rig_bonus)/100 * cost_index / 100 * base_cost
  • tax_cost = tax / 100 * job_cost
  • total_cost = tax_cost + job_cost

If your base cost is 100, the system cost index is 2%, the tax is 10%, then your job cost is 2 is, and the tax is … 0.2 isk. So when the cost index is high, you can make money but ppl don’t go in your structure because it’s too expensive.

What’s even more absurd is that the rigs, that are reducing the job cost, also reduce your tax and thus you pay to gain less money.

A proposal for fix :

  • tax from citadel is applied on base cost of item. 1% means it adds a flat 1 point to the cost index of the system, for a user.
  • plus, minimum tax for industry (all activities) is set to 2% in empire, 1.5% in LS, 1% in NS/WS.
  • plus, the effect of the rigs for reducing job cost, only apply to system cost index (so no more to tax).

With this modification, if I have 1.5% tax in LS (the minimum), with base cost 100, index 2%, with a -19% rig, the cost becomes ± 1.6 from cost index + 1.5 from tax, total = 3.1.
Same situation in HS, min tax is 2%, rig becomes -10% so total tax = 2 from tax + 1.9 from cost index = 3.9%
same situation in NS, min tax is 1%, rig becomes -21%, so 1% from tax, 1.58% from cost index => total 2.58% cost

new formula :

  • job_cost = (100+rig_bonus)/100 * cost_index / 100 * base_cost (no change)
  • tax_cost = tax /100 * base_cost
  • total cost = job_cost+tax_cost (unchanged)
6 Likes

When you have several alts, it’s very annoying to just switch alts in order to start all the jobs.

It would be nice, to allocate once, per alt, a number of slots to the corporation / alt (not sure) , so that a director in the corp, or the alt allocated, can use those slots . the skills / implants used should be those of the character, though. in case the alt loses industry slots (becomes alpha, or extracts the skills) then the shared slots are removed first. A simpler version would be to let the allocated character / corporation use all the slots given by the alt.

The implementation would be, from the main, on the industry box , this bar : a select box on the right of the “group selection” box, with the name of the alts that have allocated slots.

  • if the alt allocated slots to the corporation, then the character name is available when “my bpos” is selected in the first selectbox
  • if the alt allocated slots to the corporation, its name si available when “corporation bpos” is selected.
1 Like

It’s very annoying when you create lots of items, and they all go to a cargo and the cargo is full. so more jobs can’t be delivered unless you go there and “stack all” in the can.

How to solve : one of

  • once a series of job is completed, or when a job fails because no room in the destination, stack all is called on the destination of the jobs.
  • created items from industry are added to an already exiting stack, if present.
  • make an option on cans / hangars to autostack.

My preferred one is the last, because simpler (right click on the can/hangar, add autostack or remove autostack) It’s my preferred because many times I put stuff in a can, and later I need to manually stack all in it. eg when I sort my stuff and I put the ammos in an “ammo” can, the modules, etc.

filtering stuff

Another useful (not only for industry) would be to be able to color the inventory based on the filters. That would only color the background, not replace the image. Like when you select it. a list of filter could be set, so eg if I have as settings

  1. “category==charge” is brown
  2. “packaged == false && category != ship && category != celestial” is light brown
  3. "damaged == true " is orange
  4. “tech==2” is yellow
  5. "meta>10 && name contains “modified” " is purple
  6. “meta>10” is blue
  7. “meta>5” is green

etc, I can easily find out which items are not in the correct place without having to switch filter every time.

2 Likes

what about revamping the PI system, Paying NPCS to move your PI around and maybe reseting your extractor heads for a bigger fee. this would need first an NPC FOB in your system which you need to have good standings with first. all the PI will go to this station which you cannot dock or tether on it. this FOB can be killed like a PLEX structure but it would have smaller timers (18 hours at best) and the reward for it would be all the PI stored in it alongside some isk in loot medals like the ones you get when you steal an ESS. killing these FOB will ofcourse lower your standings with said corporation. this corporations can be the ones that do mining ops in HS like Ducia Foundry.

Overall this would make PI a little bit more passive but with less profit for the lazier pilot, and it will also make up for some content generation that doesn’t involve bashing a POS.

Just some thoughts:

  • Show active jobs on login screen?

  • As mentioned above, a method of choosing to accumulate manufacturing, science or reaction slots across an account for characters in the same corp with the same roles would be neato. Could also apply to PI. This would reduce the login in and out of clients so much.

  • Lack of in game introduction for newbros into manufacturing or trading to some extent (not sure what could be added here however).

  • Lack of industry or trade connection into factional warfare. Maybe resource wars can be reborn towards something like this?

  • Mining missions, why run these at all (semi related to above).

  • Stacking of bpcs of the same type

  • Ability/option to split stack into x amount y times e.g. i want to split 10,000 ammo into 5 x 2,000 stacks i have to use 5 operations.

  • Consider a “built by” mark on the ship info for larger or more expensive ships similar to how abyssal modules are made.

  • Abyssal muta-plasmids for mining ships and equipment.

  • Any way of removing or reworking the 5min delay on inventory? (Probably a database restriction however…?)

  • Research crews/teams, when these were removed the aim was to bring them back in some form. It has been 4 - 5 years since they were removed however.

1 Like

+++ yes please

On PI: The red and white color scheme of lava planets can make the planet deposit scan red and white colors very difficult to see.

1 Like