Manufacturing, is it only for the "big boys"

one thing some dont realise is that some indy player that produced their own base PI mats or mineral cuts into their own profit.

instead of selling just the ore / mineral they use it to produce higehr end product and reducing their selling price.

By doing so, they cut into their profits but they eneble a higher income. For example:

  • Selling the ore / mineral on the market would yield 1M ISK profit.
  • Producing an item would 3M ISK but the buy mineral cost on the market are too high so you cant compete with other.
  • If you use your own mats, yousacrifice your 1M profit from mineral, but you get access to that 3M profit from manufacturing.

Time is money, Money is time.

There is no point to produce your own mats to produce stuff if selling those mats separatly yield you higher profit!

Also, the value of your own base produced mats is only base on any other equilavent ISK generating activiy you can perform in the same amount of time recquired to produced said base mats.

Of course, this is based on the min-maxing ISK making game. Outside of this game, ISK generated is ISK, and ISK is better than no ISK.

if you really want to make isk in industry you basically have two main options.

Either focus on manufacturing just a few products at high efficiency with high trade volumes and small but reliable margins. You make for the small margins by mass producing them.

Your other main option is diversify. rather than just manufacture try to cover as many steps in the ore >>> final product process yourself.

To maximise profits you need to find the best method to accomplish each step. Some skill with spreadsheets comes in really handy here.

Step 1 mining the ore
personally I do not recommend doing this step yourself. mining takes a lot of time with a poor isk per hour return. It is also very difficult to mine enough ore yourself to sustain even a modest manufacturing portfolio. But if you enjoy mining, your ore has to come from somewhere. just remember to count the ore you mine at market value. If you can sell the ore for more isk than the products you make from it, you are actually losing potential profits. Ore and minerals can generally be found much cheaper the further you are from a trade hub. however trade hubs see a lot more volume. what is best for you goes back to the first decision. High volumes at low profit or Higher profits at lower volumes.

Step 2 processing the ore
buying raw ore and processing it yourself can be cheaper than buying the minerals from the market. these margins can be just as tight. you will need maxed skills and access to a decent refinery for this step to be worth the effort. Again, buying ore or minerals can be cheaper further from a trade hub, but high volumes of ore can be hard to find.

Step 3 Locating your Home Base
Location is a huge factor affecting industrial profits. there are 3 basic locations you need to balance. the source for your raw materials, your Home Base where you will do your manufacturing, and where you sell your finished product. generally the best place to sell products is at a trade hub. As said before there is an abundance of raw materials available here, However this is usually the most expensive place to buy those raw materials. How far are you willing to go? Cheaper raw materials increases your profits but adds to the hauling or Logistics you need to handle. do you locate your Home Base close to your raw materials, Closer to your selling point, or somewhere in between.

Step 4 Logistics
Logistics is a big issue to deal with. you have a few option.
Keep every thing local. This will drop profits but you will have no logistics to deal with.
Pay someone to haul raw materials to and finished products from your Home Base. This will cut into your profits but can save you a lot of time.
Or you can Haul it all yourself. This can maximise your profits but can be very time consuming to deal with. Not to mention the risk factor of a hauler getting caught by pirates.

Step 5 Complexity of your Operation
You next have to decide how complex your manufacturing operation will be. There is a wide range here. from one step T1 to several steps in T2 or T3 manufacturing. The more complex the item the more profits are available, but just like other steps in manufacturing some of the profits are attached to each stage of the process.

Overview
They key to remember is profits are attached to each step. The more steps you do yourself the more of the profits go into your pocket. however if you lack the skills it may be cheaper to let someone else do it.

-There is profit to be made in logistics moving raw materials from remote locations to your home base or trade hub.

-There is potential profit in refining/reacting ore, moon goo, T3 raw materials into useable minerals or other materials.

-You can increase profits by locating your home in a system with a low industrial index, and/or an Engineering Complex set up for your type of manufacturing.

  • low profit margins can be offset through high volume. making 1% on items you can mass produce and sell as fast as you can make them can give you more isk per hour than an item you make 10% on but sits on the market for weeks before it sells.

-The isk you pay someone else to haul your loads can go into your own pocket if you have the time and skills to fly a freighter to collet raw materials and deliver products to market.

-Finally if you are manufacturing T2 ships for example. there is reactions turning raw moon mats into processed moon materials. then those materials are used to make components that are then used to make the ships. If you are 0nly doing the final stage then someone else is making profits off the other stages.

How do you choose to make your first billion isk as an industrialist? 1% profit on 100 billion isk worth of products sourced, manufactured, and sold locally, 10% profit on 10 billion isk worth of products with significantly more logistics involved. Or somewhere in-between. The profits are there, You just Need to do the research and put in the work. you can find your niche.

1 Like

While I agree with what you are saying PI is a little different.

It is true that with PI going from P2 >> P3 or P3 >> P4 does appear to be less profit compared to just selling the P1. There are other factors with PI. Each tier drastically reduces the volume, increasing the amount you can store planet side meaning less trips to market.

Also a lot of PI is done in remote parts of space, often in low sec, or in wormholes. So logistics is even more important in these areas.

Personally I use most of my PI to make fuel blocks, but depending on where you are, would you rather haul a freighter load of P1 or convert it to P3 and P4 and have it all fit in a blockade runner. the loss in profits are minimal compared to the volume reduction.

I see myself as small-to-medium manufacturer yet I make decent profits (I do business in Hek). Make sure you are not manufacturing for oversupplied goods as profits there might be non-existent.

I LoVe these “advices from community”!

1 - one mil loss per item Blueprint Calculator - Blueprint Display
2 - 6hundred thou loss per item Blueprint Calculator - Blueprint Display
3 - 6hundred thou loss per item htt ps://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint
/?typeid=3178
4 - 1.5mil loss per item htt ps://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=2048
5 - 1.5mil loss per item htt ps://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=11269

Wow.

I certainly hope that other people aren’t stupid enough to take advice given back on September 22 - ‘normal’ times in EVE - and apply them to the single most exceptional time in tech 2 production in EVE in the entire seven years I have played the game.

Not to mention that you then somehow manage to use Fuzzwork’s site and STILL get the numbers wrong by a factor of ten.

If this post is indicative of your understanding of EVE, I’d offer to direct you to an ISK doubler in Jita, but I assume you’ve probably already sold your main character and given the doubler everything you have.

1 Like

Actually, you’re wrong.

Mostly because you’re using the tool wrong. The runs always starts at 1. But when you do invention, the cost to do a single invention run is included. For AIF II, that’s a 10 run blueprint that’s produced. So if you increase the runs to 10 and adjust the ME/TE appropriately, you’ll find that there’s a profit of around 747,132.51 isk/hr if you make it in Jita. (which is a dumb place to make it.) (if you normalize it to a 24 hour window for those 10 runs, it’s only 220,000 isk/hr)

Warrior II, 369k
LNB II, 447k
DC II, 203k
EANM II, 253k

I provide tools to do the math for you. Not the thinking, or understanding.

4 Likes

(yes, i see now 10 runs vs 1 run produces huge difference…)
(yes i see now “invention cost” does not change… even for 20 runs)

aaaaa!!
pleaze delete that msg!!
it is disgraceful!!!

(yes i see tool is kinda wrong, shows the same invention cost for both 10 and 20 runs… but that is not important…)

The tool isn’t wrong. It just doesn’t do what you think.

And which message are you meaning is disgraceful? The one where I tell you you’re wrong?

Because I regret to inform you, I’ll be doing no such thing.

Your tools are so great. Thanks for sharind.

Would it be possible to have ME/TE changed when you select a decryptor and be 2/4 when none are selected ?

It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a long time now.

Still haven’t come to a decision yet :smiley:

Hey man. I see there are some Blueprint displays. How recent/ accurate are these?

I found a pretty sweet niche which has now been made obsolete im afraid :slight_smile: I was buying ores and refining them and getting minerals cheaper than i could get on the market this gave me an edge, i didnt have to mass produce and could still make money that was worth the effort. But now the margins are really thin after the Lifeblood expansion. So im not happy about that, especially because i invested alot of skillpoints into refinery effeciency of ores :slight_smile: But i cant compete anymore its cheaper to just buy the minerals on the market now because refining in nuill sec is apparantly way better than refining in highsec and i dont have access to nullsec :frowning: Shame on CCP

And how, pray tell, is that a problem of CCP? Markets do change; what was profitable yesterday might not be profitable anymore today. Maybe it will balance out because (moon)mining will level out because of too low margins. Maybe it won’t and you will have to find another venue.

1 Like

yea only problem is that you invest loads of skillpoints into something that is now no longer useful

What did change with lifeblood in that regard? I don’t see that negative connection … rather would expect the new Refinaries make compression/refine more profitable.

i was buying ores,
Compressing them,
hauling to Perimeter…

(that is boring…)

decryptor costs $,$$$,$$$

and your profit is only … (per 10 runs…)

I don’t understand your point

you can spend 5,000,000 on decryptor
and you get only +1,500,000 to profit