Marauders and missioning

Communications Center General Discussion
1

A long time ago I skilled into Golem with perfect skills, and this was the ship of my choice for running missions.

Having said that, I also happened to get the perfect skills for Vindicator in order to run incursions, so to shake things up I recently got myself Kronos just to play around with it, and after some getting used to it feels both more fun and faster at any given mission. I use a combination of MJD and MWD to quickly get into good spots to bastion up and use blasters, and it’s working very well.

I have near perfect skills for Paladin and Vargur (the weapon specializations are at 4), but the hassle of getting specialization to 5 and getting specific clones with 6% implants is making me wonder if it’s worth it.

Do Paladin and Vargur bring anything exciting to the table to bother with those? So far I am loving Kronos and highly doubt I will ever use Golem again.

2

The obvious response is that the resists of each ship and the damage dealt by their weapon systems will make each ship better or worse for different NPC types. I would think this would be especially true for the Paladin, which probably does an exceptional job when faced with an optimal EM/Therm vulnerable enemy dealing EM/Therm damage.

3

The paladin is glorious but hurts from the obvious damage type issues. With the MJD strategy you’re best to fit tachyons and just melt from range. The problem that Paladin has, and the kronos as well, is that they are armour tanked and as such are rep based which means they have low EHP. The shield based Marauders can be EHP fit and rely on their shield recharge, would they ever really need to tank, which gives them a ton more EHP making it all a lot safer to use and, generally, also cheaper to use.

That brings us to the Vargur. IF you get the MJD thing right then fit that things with 1400s, do NOT group them, and then just blap 4 targets in one go to then target 4 more. 1400s, Drone links, Bastion, MWD, MJD, LSE/invuls, TC, DC, gyros. Rigs personal preference. It’s pretty awesome.

4

I’d just recommend running the missions in any SoE hub.

You’ll do well and the LP is good.

If you need help during a mission and a guy with Hawk in his name is in local, reach out. He can def help.

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5

Vargur gives you the damage type & range variety like missiles do, but with the turret physics instead of missile physics – notably, instant damage application.

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6

I see what you did there.

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7

Wut?

Little ole me? Hawk doesn’t even like me :smiley:

He’s blocked me in game :smiley:

8

Gank fleets will only be a bother if they can be in 5 systems at once. That’s how many hubs I have set up missioning ships at, so I can move between them due to gankers or 4 hour decline timers. Usually gankers are present at zero to 2 systems at any given time, 3 if this is particulary crazy day.

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9

You sir have learned to EVE.

10

I am fully qualified to answer your question (at least from my own opinion) as i fly all 4 marauders for L4 mission running and this is my breakdown:

  1. Golem
    Easiest, you can aggro every group of ships in any L4 room and kill them all without any concerns whatsoever. Full damage selection, full damage application out to like 118 km with my set up so no need to move except in like 1 or 2 missions Mission completion times: average for this group.

  2. Vargur
    Most useful damage of the turrets as both its long and short range ammo have uses in L4s and you could (though i don’t) use other damage dealing projectiles to run missions that; for instance, require EM damage dealing. I use 800mm autocannons as the easily cover all necessary engagement ranges with some movement on some missions being requred but not often and not much.

The Vargur has great tracking and if you use Republic Fleet Depleated Uranium L you can increase your tracking to a very high level - i use three tracking computers and i can hit about 25% -50% of all orbiting frigates using this setup of ammo and tracking computers. Normally i have my computers set for range but if enough frigates get close to me for some reason and i don’t want to wait till my drones slo-mo kill them all I switch to 3 tracking comps and the Republic ammo to take care of the problem. Mission completion times for this group: above average.

  1. Paladin
    Incredible damage application at long ranges (even though i use Mega Pulse Lasers). It is often hard to justify using the Scorch ammo as the optimal is stupidly long but you can use it for closing the gap as you can instantly swap ammo types anyways. Locked to EM/THERMAL damage so it really only shines where those damage types are the best options and really, really only shines fighting ‘Amarrian’ variant enemies.
    Mission completion: most missions below average, those fights that shine with either EM or THERMAL the times are above average and if you fight ‘Amarrian’ variant enemies the completion times are excellent.

  2. Kronos
    You use Null all the time, my fit has computers that almost always have 3 range scripts running and even this set up the optimal is only 19 km with a 71 km falloff using Null and 10km optimal and 19km falloff with Void making Void basically useless.

On missions like Damsel in Distress where you could park the Kronos dead center and have all the ships you fight within Void’s optimal range, you still cannot because waves of frigates keep coming and they will engulf you if you are in the middle of the combat zone; therefore, you are better off fighting from the point you land at when you hit the mission and using null the entire time.

Tracking on the Kronos is very good but damage dealing suffers at long ranges so missions where there are long ranges and few frigates or destroyers that are easy to kill you will be moving a lot to get close enough to start putting the hurt down. Comparison: Vargur’s long range ammo: falloff w/ 3 optimal scripts running 121 km vs the long range scripted Kronos’s at 77km. That kind of fall off difference really hurts the Kronos in missions with long ranges. Mission completion times: against non-optimal enemies below average as you are locked to KINETIC / THERMAL damage. for optimal or near optimal enemies missions are generally close to average but if there is even one pocket with targets at long range the completion time will be below average and the more long range engagements the mission has the more the Kronos falls behind the other three ships in mission completion times.

BUT…

All is not completion times, there is the fun factor to consider and so…

Golem (fun if you want to pull entire pockets and push the fight intensity, none of the turrets can really do this as well as the Golem can) Generally the Golem is less fun to use than the turrets because it makes mission running just so easy that it gets boring (well eventually anyyways, as I ran just the Golem for 5 years)

Vargur (fun all the time as its range of ammo types and its ability to use both its short and long range ammo types makes it perhaps the most interesting of the marauders to blast stuff with but it still isn’t my favorite because its appearance to me is somewhat lacking)

Paladin (a lot of fun when running against Amarrian Variant enemies as it will cook them so fast it is almost shocking but the fun goes away completely fighting angels in particular as they just wont care about your damage dealing at all, since you are locked to EM / THERMAL damage dealing)

Kronos (surprise, I love this one the most) The looks monster stomp the others and that just does it for me) The Kronos is locked to KINETIC / THERMAL and even then you have to travel more than the others by a consideble amount to kill targets. Also, you basically only use one ammo type so that can be somewhat boring.

And suggestions…

Golem (best of the marauders to run L4s for a year to a few years as it makes them easy and pulling entire pockets on to yourself is just so fun to do)

Vargur (best second choice after the Golem’s easy mode L4 running gets boring because the Vargur overall completes missions the fastest and has a lot of ammo options that are actually useful, which adds a lot of interest)

Paladin (The speed at which this ship will melt Amarrian variant enemies is stunning even though I’ve been running it for a year now, plus multi-colored lazors and insta-ammo swapping goodness)

Kronos (If you are stupidly wealthy or love the looks enough to ignore its generally slower completion times) then screw the ISK concerns and take this beast out and love your look as well as the fight!

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11

I have been using Kronos exclusively for about 2bil worth of mission rewards, and while I am using Null ammo quite a bit, I find that I am using Void rather frequently. I use dual prop fit with MJD+MWD and two tracking computers, and I tend to use the prop mods to bastion where I can use Void.

I have not used Paladin or Vargur, but I vastly prefer using Kronos over Golem for fun factor.

12

Okay, we have a difference of opinion about the Void usage, i find that the fall off is to steep to really use Void, usually at combat distances the Null will be out dpsing void. I have forced the issue and used void in missions just to use it, but i cannot recommend it in general. Both of our findings are valid for our game play, thanks for adding your comment it gives people another point of view to work from, cheers!

13

Paladin damage issue isn’t an issue.
Ideal against anyone using shield tank as the EM resistance has to be filled from 0%, and most ships expect a very few have a natural EM resistance shield hole.
I tend to throw Explosive Damage Heavy Drones or Sentry Drones on. This allows the Paladin to rip the shield away and the drones/Sentries take advantage of the low armour resistance, and the Lasers add extra damage to the Explosive damage.

This is the reason why you use Amarr Drones with Triglavian Disintegrator, the Drones rip target shields away and the Disintegrator add a small amount to the shield take-down, but as cycles gets higher the Disintegrator high Explosive damage rips armour away.

So remember even if you ship has limited damage types, you can use drones/Sentries to compensate missing damage types.

14

I am interested in trying the Vargur. What weapon system do you recommend, and what fit in general?

15

[Vargur]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
AE-K Compact Drone Damage Amplifier

F-12 Enduring Tracking Computer
F-12 Enduring Tracking Computer
Optical Compact Tracking Computer
Large Cap Battery II
X-Large Clarity Ward Enduring Shield Booster
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive

800mm Repeating Cannon II
800mm Repeating Cannon II
800mm Repeating Cannon II
800mm Repeating Cannon II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Bastion Module I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II

Warrior I x15

Tracking Speed Script x3
Optimal Range Script x3
Hail L x1680
Republic Fleet Depleted Uranium L x320
Barrage L x1680

You could run this with different set ups depending but you asked and this is my exact setup.

16

Good that you found a solution, very creative: for me though, I hate heavy and sentry drones. The only real use I have ever used sentries for was combat anoms and I have never used heavies because they move so slow.

17

Good comparison! :+1:
What are alternative tools to fit in the 3 optional high slots? (Beside salvagers and beam).

18

okay you have only two metrics worth in PVE :

  • damage
  • projection(distance you can apply)
  • precision (how easy it is to apply to smaller targets)
  • mobility
  • tank

Joke aside, marauders have a straight increase in all. To the point, you can use close range guns as middle range.

Then the question is : how good are they at range ?

Well I can’t talk for paly, but people say it’s good with tachyons, its damage is close to pulse while having more range, so I guess it brings higher range.
I have the hulls, the modhulls, I just need to ship that all and do the tests. CBB.

I tried rail khronos and fell asleep. Large rails are crap.
I tried blaster khronos and fell into falloff. Had to use null all the time, so need webs to shoot frigates, lower DPS than rail at 50km or so, rats can flee you and you deal no DPS, I find it fun though. Just, not efficient

I tried cruise golem. Fell asleep, too low DPS and you miss a lot of missiles because RoF increase instead of damage sucks.
I tried torp golem. 'tis good. 3k DPS @70km with two rf painters. same issue as with cruise though, a lot of wasted shots (even when splitting between 2 launchers in rage for BS and 2 launchers in CN for <BS, it was OS on sub BS.)

I tried AC vargur. It has much better projection than blaster kronos, better DPS than rail khronos, and better actual DPS than golem because instant shot. lower DPS than khronos and golem though, but also very easy tank since uniform resists.
I tried arty vargur. Just kidding, arty is PVP only weapon

19

Thanks for the breakdown! The first marauder I was able to use was the Kronos (acceptable progression from the Sentry Potato in my mind anyway), and I really love it. The way mine is set up I can use rails/MJD if I want to be in easy mode and snipe, switch to blasters/MWD if I want to do them in a hurry. I pair it with a Mach for missions where I might need to move, and rarely fit the blasters any more. I keep hearing how good the Vargur is, 16 days and I find out for myself!

20

Well, at this point I ran all 4 marauders for some time, and I can give a quick run down of personal experience. First a little disclaimer:

I am running all 4 with a same clone, so no racial weapon specific implants. I used the ones most marauders would benefit from, warp speed + all turret enhancers, so Golem is sort of the least favorite child implant wise. All relevant skills at 5, including marauder 5/5 and all weapon specializations. Zero bling, no deadspace, no faction. Overtanked due to marauder ganking, at least 2 buffer tank modes on each (armor for kronos/pally, shield for vargur/golem).

I found Kronos to be most fun to use with blasters, but it royally sucks vs rats that like to stay in range and spread all over the place (think blood raiders blockade). Kronos works awesome vs rats that like to get close like Angels and Serpentis. If you use it in the right place it shines, and in the wrong place it sucks. So I parked it where there are lots of Angels and Serpentis, and it’s a joy to use. It works well with Null, but when you get the chance to use Void is super awesome. Dual prop MJD/MWD allows to bastion in the right places and works exceptionally well. Kronos outputs so much damage that the specific damage it does and rats resist does not matter, it just melts everything in it’s optimal regardless of what it is. Very fun to use.

Paladin is like the perfect ship to use pretty much anywhere where Kronos sucks, it’s like an antidote to Kronos. I use it with Tachyons, and Gleam works really well at the mission engagement ranges. It works even better where damage profile matches the rat weakness, so Sansha/Amarr space is where I have it placed.

Golem works everywhere, but is the least fun to use. I prefer cruises over torps, because they are faster and fury cruises do same damage as javelin torps. Rage torps are just meh due to damage application and damage wasted. Also you don’t need to stack up as many target painters with cruises, I only use one and it’s enough with max skills plus dual rigor rigs.

Vargur is the one that works best overall, especially vs Angels where T2 ammo finds perfect application of damage. I prefer autocannons, and ammo selection is very convenient. Best used in Minmatar space, because Kronos or Paladin will still be more effective with their rats of choice. Vs Angels you will not find a better marauder.

Overall, I find that Golem will work in any faction space with any rat type, but is the least fun to play with. With all other Marauders, they will work best and be most fun to play vs their chosen type of enemies, with Kronos being most fun to play when in it’s own element.

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