Well, someone mentioned in a previous mining-barges-for-alphas thread that we might need a megathread like the one we have for cloaky camping. Well, after seeing yet another MB for alphas thread, I decided to make it.
Think alphas should have mining barges, or that CCP should design a new mining ship for them to use? Let us know all about here.
I think the usual ask is:
“I want a better ship for safely mining large amounts of ISK in hi-sec and I don’t want to pay for Omega”.
Alphas: The Venture is a cracking mining ship - if you use it right. And mining in hi-sec is really not it’s strength. You’ve noticed other ships can do that more efficiently however:
It can mine gas - the lowest value gas is 2m ISK per Venture full. 10-20m ISK for Wormhole Gasses. That knocks sideways anything you earn bashing rocks in hi-sec. Even accounting for ship losses you are going to make a good profit (yes: gas harvesters are expensive, but you’ve got to risk something!).
It is fast and slippery - it aligns quickly, has an innate +2 warp core stability so provided you are paying attention it’s hard to catch. Why are you mining in hi-sec? The low-sec ores are 2-3 times that value (or better). Go there. A full ship is worth more than it cost you, you can afford a regular loss. And it’s a lot more tense and exciting to ninja mine than to just sit and watch the rubble drift by.
In both cases the Venture is a better ship than any Mining Barge or Exhumer.
It’s arguably better than the Prospect or Endurance because it’s cheap enough to pay for itself in one run.
Both activities are more profitable and much more fun than just grinding Veldspar in a backwater and thinking “this is Eve?!” - and you are here for fun aren’t you? You don’t need Omega Clone State to have fun and make some ISK. You just need a bit of thinking and willingness to throw yourself into something.
The same applies to almost everything else in Eve: the basic, small, cheap ships are more fun - if you want them to be and if you use them as they can be used.
Agreed very good points regarding the venture. Great Ninja Miner Good Gas miner. They think barges are better. They can be in some respects like mass mining belts in groups. Super cheap pays for its self many times over. Just like the Heron with exploration.
Yeah, off topic, but you can have my thoughts.
(Because I’m arrogant enough to think my thoughts are relevant…)
There’s three reasons I don’t like the idea:
Alpha should be a gateway to Omega. CCP do have to have an income stream to ensure their, and Eve’s, future. That’s why I am happy paying for Omega: because I like Eve and want it to continue. So saying, people being permanent Alpha is fine with me - New Eden should be busy and full of life. Alpha state does help make the game more alive. You don’t have to go through the gateway if you don’t want to.
Secondly it makes for an easy to abuse mechanic. It becomes too easy to put a cloaked Alpha into every system: if I want the enemy to think there is someone watching their staging systems or operational bases (something that significantly disrupts an operation) then it should have a cost to the player beyond "spam a lot of alphas, bung them in a cheap (to an old player) covert ops ship, put them in a system and forget about them. Can you imagine “cloaked Alpha spam” everywhere? It’ll be worse than advertising containers. Or put a cloaked Alpha in every wormhole system to allow spying on everything.
The most important one is that it gets a new Alpha player used to the idea that “situational awareness” is a good thing rather than relying on expensive technology to protect them. We get a lot of “whine: I was is high-sec and got killed” because they thought they were safe. I’m not sure my sanity can handle “whine: I had a cloak and got killed” because they thought they safe. The “must get a cloak to be safe” becomes a distraction from “must learn to be aware of the risks and threats”.
Anyway, that’s me giving my opinion.
We can go back to “why or why not barges for Alphas” now. But interestingly, the general three arguments I have for where the Alpha/Omega line is are the same:
CCP need income to keep Eve running for us.
Some capabilities would unbalance/destroy they game if there wasn’t a real world cost to access them.
i want people to learn rather than rely on an unreliable crutch.
I like Alpha clones.
I also like Eve.
People, yeah, some are OK…
The venture is an overly capable ship relative to other alpha friendly ships, so all things being equal I cannot really see just allowing alphas to fly barges as things are right now.
The only way I could see allowing alphas to fly barges are if more variety of mining ships are added that are omega only.
OR don’t allow alphas barges but instead add some new mining ships somewhere between the barges and the venture and maybe nerf the venture in the process. Something like remove or nerf venture gas mining capability but add a dedicated gas mining hull. Or even add some hulls that are more ore specific, like something that is great for veld or scord but not so hot for plagio.
My point is that I think alpha miners could use more ship variety, but that is held back by the fact the venture is so very versatile and capable its like several ships in one.
Your commentary suggests a solution that is in need of a problem. Alphas do not require access to a wider spectrum of mining ships, nor do Omegas. If Alphas want to try Omega ships they can plex instantly to Omega for free on Singularity and play with them there; otherwise there is no problem that needs to be solved.
Your commentary suggests a desperate and pathetic need to make things up as a basis to lash out at someone. Direct your psychological issues at the OP. I never said there was a problem. I was just adding to a thread I didn’t create.
I never said anybody “needed” anything. I merely suggested possibilities for the OP and thread readers to consider; things people might “want”.
Again, I never said there was a problem. Don’t put words in my mouth. Direct your accusations at the OP.
I’m not lashing out at anyone. Not you and not OP. I’m engaging in dialogue, which can include all thread participants, not just OP. And while I did quote only a tiny segment, I made my statements with full awareness of your commentary on the other thread in which you’ve said, among other things, the following:
I did not say or imply that “Ridley says Alphas need more mining ships”; however, you did in fact provide suggestions. I did not say that you indicated the suggestions are necessary or that you even back those suggestions, I only said that you raised them - that cannot be disputed because you literally said
Again, I never said that you said this was a problem.
I feel like you are misinterpretting my meaning and intent - I was not lashing out at you - and are overreacting on the basis of a misunderstanding. I don’t know if you remember me but I was very empathetic and supportive of you in your Steam payment thread - while I am not taking your response here personally (I am making an effort to de-escalate), I want to point out that this is not the way to make friends and allies on the forums or in EVE in general.
Given the availability of expedition frigates (namely the Endurance, whose yield is almost that of the Procurer but with a far superior ore hold and survivability), can you justify the need or use case for such a ship in which it would be preferable to others on the basis of cost or performance? In what situation would someone say “this Betweener ship is better suited for my needs than T2 mining frigates or T1/T2 barges”?
I don’t want to escalate things either, but I think this was a poor choice of words to someone responding to a thread that suggested a problem, when that someone never even agreed an actual problem existed. All my commentary did was pander to the topic and the OP, so it was pretty annoying to be pointed at as if I started this thread and suggest a problem. I didn’t. I was just trying to help the OP along.