“More than 1 click every two and half minutes” is not a specific apm.
Here is a rock. On the overview it shows up as a “Veldspar-Scordite Complex”
Scanning it reveals that it is 65% veldspar, 15% scordite, 12% kernite, and 8% dregs (5% scordite, 3% pyroxeres)
Its dreg contents mean that mining drones are slowed by 8% and excavators are slowed by 40%.
The following numbers assume a skiff with two mining upgrades and the T2 version of the miner equipped.
Using a heavy miner on the rock will carve it evenly. Each cycle (48.6s) it will pull a maximum of ~436m3. Here it would pick up:
- 283m3 Veld
- 65m3 Scor
- 52m3 Kern
- 21m3 Dreg Scor
- 13m3 Dreg Pyro
This has the advantage of not needing to deal with crystals and requiring less attention than other methods, however it is overall slower than other options and gives less control over what is mined.
A heavy bore uses crystals to target ores in the rock in much the same way current modulated miners do. A 48.6 cycle pulls ~473m3 ore of the crystal type in use. If dreg crystals are used it gets a 25% bonus to mining amount (~591m3), While doing this it mines dreg types evenly.
This allows the user to mine particular ores, mine slightly faster, and to isolate ores for other miners, but calls for the use of mining crystals and the troubles that come with that. It can be used to spoon feed mining drone using ships as well.
The narrow miner is the able to mine faster than other systems but is unable to handle rocks that have not been isolated. In this case it would be unable to mine this rock at all. If we assume the rock has been broken down by another system or was naturally only one ore type it can make pulls of ~594m3.
This does not need crystals to run but needs some level of planning while mining and either a bore or a CDS to feed it isolated ores.
The core denudation system (CDS) is optimized for removing ore rather than collecting it. When loaded with a mining crystal it acts to isolate that ore, mining everything but its crystal type. It acts much faster than other heavy miners, in its 24.3s cycle it will blast ~742m3 of ore clear but it will only recover a quarter of that ore ~185m3. When loaded with dreg crystals it will remove dregs only. With the 25% bonus that provides it can clear ~928m3 per cycle.
This miner is very good for providing narrow miner equipped barges targets quickly but is very inefficient while doing so. It tends to be too wasteful to use outside of moon ores. The ability to quickly remove dregs gives it a role in badly overmined space.
And you still haven’t provided a single reason why we need 5 new mining lasers and to throw out all the existing ones.
You are too focused on your great idea and not considering what it means to replace an entire system.
There are 6 mining lasers types and 15 variants currently and they are only defined by whether they are worth using at all.
- Miner
- Deep Core Mining Laser
- Modulated Deep Core Miner
- Strip Miner
- Modulated Strip Miner
- Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner
Deep Core Mining Lasers are effectively useless holdovers from 15 years ago; literally only existing as components in the construction in other miners. And although the Modulated Deep Core Miner is actually faster than Miners at everything Ventures do not have the cargo space to use crystals effectively. Modulated Deep Core Strip Miners suffer from a pointless double penalty to their use.
Four of the six modules in this are just renamed and adapted to the mechanics. The two new ones are there to have any level of interaction and to discourage having both slots being the same miner in every possible fit. And, before you mention ratting again, if stacking miners were possible and miners worked in real time or on short cycles you might have a case.
For as much as EvE ultimately is based on the mining to build things there is remarkably little thought put into mining as gameplay which has only helped rorquals fester.
This is high-hanging fruit for a dev team that can’t seem to standardize module attributes properly. Also, rare ore is an escalation from newbie to null, why mess with it when many say the rorq is the issue?
All of which work the same basic way. Modulated just means tech 2 when it comes to miners. So there is only 1 type atm. Maybe 2 if you count the ability to deep core mine as a separate type. But no more than 2.
You on the other hand have wishlisted a whole raft of different mechanics for mining lasers of various sorts. All of which will need laser and strip and deep core variants. So by your counting system you are creating at least 15 mining systems.
And you still haven’t shown that this part of.your suggestion will actually improve anything. It feels much more like it’s going to wreck most people’s mining by being overly complex with needing 10 different crystals just for the sake of a yield nerf on rorquals
In this huge post, is there anything that promotes competitive mining
to make sure it’s ripped out of the hands of the carebears who destroy the profession?
If you mean ore types that hasn’t change, if you mean high yield ores those aren’t actually tied to space at all currently.
There are no “strip” or “deep core” versions under this plan. Why do you think I am suggesting that?
Everytime I say what would be an improvement over the current system you seem to actively ignore it or the implications so:
- It will create situations in which a fleet of nothing but rorquals is slower than a fleet using subcaps.
- Finding a system that cannot be reached at all by any enemy and mining it forever will come at the cost of massive yield reduction.
- Border zones will have the best yields as a result, encouraging mining fleets to do stupid and dangerous things for greener pastures.
- Highsec miners claiming “their” space is being mined are more likely to take up arms than they are now.
- Heavy mining tools are not identical to light miners as they are now.
- Barges have a sliding scale of effort to yield.
- Scanners may justify their use.
- Mining will have gameplay rather watching a number going up and ejecting a can every ten minutes.
I do not understand the claim that crystals would be too complex. If that really were true no one would use them now. And whereas now where every barge needs at least two of every set, encouraging mixing mining types means only one set is required.
One of the miners more or less allows burning rocks down if it is loaded wrong.
Yes, I mean those. If moving players from hisec toward null is a progression issue (as evidenced by other forum topics), symbioses need to be as simple or as complex as the core principal of moving players.
Your idea about mining laser changes doesn’t look as implementable as, say, a new class of mining crystals with a chance to extract rare ores out of conventional rock/gas/ice. There’s another skill book or twelve, another D100 roll…but it’s a lower hanging fruit than what you proposed initially 
So it doesn’t.
Okay.
This thread can be closed. *snickers* xD
Bye! 
What exactly do you mean by “competitive mining”?
The depletion mechanic isn’t bad if it actually applies to anomalies as well.
Then just rip all belts out of systems, make grav anoms more common, and moon mining produce regular belt materials at a decent pace as well.
That fulfills the desire to not just have your own moon, but drive other miners away from your system to avoid depletion that isn’t going into your coffers.
Of course, as above, none of this requires mining lasers to change at all.
1 Like
Imagine a necessary scarcity.
“This is my ore. If you want it, come fight for it.”
Considering that mining is the single most important profession,
and considering that it’s being hogged by carebears completely ruining it,
it’s safe to say that your idea is not really going to make anything better,
because it doesn’t address the root cause of why mining is ■■■■.
Yes, I can tell. I’ve been mining quite a lot. I have an Orca char, several mining chars and I’ve even taught others how to mine safely without needing to tank their ships and sacrificing yield.
A good miners’ tank is a proper fleet setup and paying attention to his surroundings.
You’ve apparently put a lot of effort into your idea and I applaud you for that, I really do,
but it’s not really anything necessary or helpful, because mining is fine.
The masses of people, who are doing it afk and downgrading the profession, are broken.
Deep core miners are for mining Mercoxit. they are actually required to mine this ore/rock.
Strip miners are for Barges/exhumers there is T1 and T2(modulated)
And this right here is what im talking about, when it comes to reference of minerals from the ore, using T1 strips and no crystals ever again under Orca boosts would be more efficient and destroy the T2 market.
Please just stop since you seem to have no understanding of this field.
This seems a little overly complicated on the whole, but there are some parts of this post I readily agree with:
Though I am curious as to how the “relevance” of different ore sizes was changed by the addition of the Venture? I don’t see why it was ever a good thing, but if anyone can tell me otherwise I’d love to hear it.
Is your argument here that the slower way with boosts is faster than using crystals without boosts? People already use T1 strip miners to avoid needing to use crystals, and that’s not even counting ores that don’t have crystal sets.
Before the venture most of what are now logi hulls were miners. Their bonuses were weak (20% per level) and they had to fit cargo expanders instead of mining upgrades if they wanted to fit one cycle of ore. Because ore pulls round down a new player could easily lose 10% of their mining speed trying to mine large ores. The venture bakes that bonus in and has a separate hold skipping that whole awkward point for a new player. It is still noticeable when battleship mining or when using unbonused mining drones.
A serious case could also be made that it’s just something they did 20 years ago and never thought about the implications of.
Thank you!
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.