Another proposal for mining improvement (maybe)

(Piugattuk) #1

So maybe we can make mining bit more challenging like this;

Proposal: make asteroids not just a single type but percentage based, example, asteroids could have Veldspar, 50%, 30% Scordite, 10% Pyroxeres, 10% Plagioclase, as an example, Omber, kernite in their respective racial spaces.

Now, that can be all randomized by maybe having Pyroxeres be 50% and veldspar be a 20%, just a mixed bag, the 5/10’s such as massive Scordite etc, can also be found in randomized asteroids.
What this does is make people have a choice, search for roids that offer higher percentage of ores they are looking for or just mine and take what comes.

This would shake up the market and make it more dynamic, depending on how miners go about mining the ore minerals market would change to be more demanding, something that players can take advantage of or suffer based upon some things being more scarce when miners don’t have availability of certain products, leaving others a choice of either mining themselves or place market orders and hope for the best.

(Nevyn Auscent) #2

Finally a mining suggestion that doesn’t add a minigame, but does add some thought.

My problem with this idea comes down to the lack of fitting available on most miners. When you have 1 or 2 mid slots only fitting a mineral scanner is really hard to do, so if this sort of thing went ahead barges fitting allowance should be increased.
It should of course be increased for other reasons anyway, but doubly so if this sort of thing went ahead.

(QuakeGod) #3

That would render mining crystals useless, as they only work with a single ore type.

(Nevyn Auscent) #4

Not necessarily. It would need mining crystals consolidated much like moon mining. And therefore also skills.
But you can just have Common, Uncommon & Rare asteroid mining skills/crystals.
But moon mining proves it can be done and that crystals are still workable.

(Tiddle Jr) #5

I thought market is already balanced by % of minerals demand required for production.

(elitatwo) #6

Isn’t that what’s happening in the highsec and lowsec moons?

(Nevyn Auscent) #7

One imagines that’s where this idea came from, to move the same principle into the belts/anoms/etc.
It has a few advantages to the current system in terms of giving CCP finer controls over ore distribution than they currently have, and rewarding observant miners without putting any annoying minigame into mining.
It’s got the downside that the current fitting allowances of mining barges/etc don’t really allow for some of the barges to leverage the scanner properly though, and it would become a little harder to ‘maximise’ profits by cherry picking the single most valuable ore. Though I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing really.

(Alex Dujev) #8

There must not be different ore types in one asteroid:

  • it is against nature;
  • searching for them will make mining terrible (this is not smth what someone could imagine).

Such a system exists in Elite Dangerous. And it’s very unusefull.

Btw there are already different types: we have Dence (10%), Concentrated (5%) versions of ore. I thinks that’s enough.

But i like your intention to make mining more natural.

On my opinion next solution could be useful:
it could be more different types of one ore. So they could contain rare minerals in very small amounts (so you can extract them only with good trained reprocessing skills). For examples there could be not only Dense, Concentrated Veldspar but also Metamorphized (containing small portion of Zydrine), Shifted (with Nocxium) etc.

Any changes with asteroids to make them contain different types of ore require a tool for analysing it and this must be automized for all field (or only part of it - inside optimal range of tool) but it must not be manual.

(Max Deveron) #9

Assuming the idea is different minerals in different ores unlike what Alex Dujev might be thinking, i would not be totally opposed to this idea as my group strip mines anyway entire belts.

particularly like the idea of changing the crystals from single ore type use to what we have for the moon goo ores with this proposal.


I can currently check which ore generates which mineral im interested in, i then go make a choice about which ore to mine and where im going to mine, your idea just makes me mine ore i dont need and likely the market doesnt want (or id be mining it in preference for more isk/hr) and gives me nothing but headache in return.

I realize this is what they did with moon mining and i dont think it added favorable content there either.

(Teckos Pech) #11

The market is already dynamic so do you mean more volatile?

So in response to the increased volatility you want more speculation to reduce the volatility?

(Piugattuk) #12

It does sound like it, but considering that moon mining has been in dull sec and prices have not really moved…now moon mining is coming to high for low end stuff, I’d hardly think it is going to become a bitcoin thing, speculators ruin everything, it’s their job, like everything they believe they have magic crystal balls to see into the future but they are just lining their pockets.

On the flip side of that coin there is the alarmist, that hand wringing, sweaty palms, pill popping worrier, they don’t want dynamic, they want everything to be as it always has been, but volatility can only happen if the markets don’t do their job, sellers, buyers, not speculation, speculators create volatility.

I have an ore storage container that has compressed ore, this ore is a strategic reserve, ice, fuels, ships, bpc’s, etc, for me there is no volatility because before the talking heads can speculate the price to Cupid prices I can ride out the temporary fluctuations.


Consider this, it really helps.

(Alex Dujev) #13

We shouldn’t think about market so much.

Common sense must be first.

Economics and market should not be a goal.

(Piugattuk) #14

Exactly, now I hate to go off on a tangent, but, people, they are simply lazy.

In a game where resources are infinite people fight over them it makes me laugh, resources are not scarce only artificial scarcity is made by other players, then players do not think to put aside resources for other times, to save for a raining day, people already know, big corporations like goons and others including bots create artificial bubbles.

Of course these people also never consider if you have a mixed bag of ore what do you get, minerals, unless changed they will still get Trit, pyri, Mexallon, and Nox, because these ores all provide that in different quantity but essentially it is still the same, if they have an abundance of one but scarce in another they can always sell it or keep the excess for later, but again it’s poor planning and laziness, but that’s people, they want something for nothing.

(Teckos Pech) #15


Promethium up through September,

And from early September onwards,

The overall picture using all available data.

So we see a flat/slight downward trend reverse itself…right around the time we get the moon goo change.

Yes prices went up a bit before that. I bet that first step we see in mid to late march is close to when the changes were announced and/or a date was given. Those ware your speculators at work, BTW. They learn something and jump into the market right away.

Markets are dynamic. The react to a number of things. For example, if somebody comes into the market and starts buying up the item in question the price goes up and suppliers look for ways to take advantage of that price increase. If a substitute item hist the market and the price drops, suppliers will respond as well consumers. Some consumers will switch, lowering the price and suppliers will react by reducing output or even shutting down.

Speculators usually reduce volatility. If there is information that something is going to be in shorter supply and that information has not been taken into account by the wider set of market participants a speculator can and will get int there and start purchasing the good in question raising the price and inducing others to economize on the good. That is people start cutting back before the short supply hits and the price jumps dramatically. Similarly if there is going to be an over supply, the speculators can do things like selling short which can have the opposite effect. Speculators also “thicken” markets.

This is a strategy to deal with volatility, and can actually reduce overall market volatility. In fact, this makes you a speculator. You are “speculating” that there will be future price increases and so you are hedging against those. When those spikes occur, you exit the market and draw down on your reserve. Alternatively you could have dumped that reserve on the market, both would act to reduce the price spike.

Technically, you are still bearing the opportunity cost here. Suppose you have a reserve of Nocxium (say 500,000 units). And suppose the price goes from 330 to 660 ISK/unit. Now instead of buying Nocxium off the market you go to your reserve. If you do not factor in the price increase into your calculations (for example you are building stuff) you are actually losing ISK. You are losing ISK because you could have sold your reserve for 660 ISK/unit. When you use the nocxium in your production process you should cost it at 660 ISK to reflect the forgone profits from not selling that nocxium into the market.

(system) #16

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