I have not “played” Eve for a good eight plus year - save for doing the skill training online. I have been considering returning to the game in a casual form and figured to replenish the ISK amounts, I will run missions first. While looking over various fits, one aspect I notice is people use the same gun or launcher size across their whole high slots. That is, back in my day, if I was using a missile boat, I would have a couple light launchers for frigates, a couple heavies for cruiser and battle cruisers, and at least one cruise missile launcher for the battleships. While this setup is a bit micromanage, it seemed efficient for me then. Has something changed in game to void this tactic?
Meta has shifted to all-one-size weapons and using positioning (kiting to eliminate transversal for turrets, for example), damage application mods (tracker buffs for turrets, explosion radius/speed buffs for missiles, for example), and drones to fill in the gaps between Battleship-class weaponry and smaller targets. Thus the cruise or RHML raven, domi sentry, and other similar fits are popular for L4 mission running as they deal with ship vs gun size classes well.
One thing that’s changed is the Micro Jump Drive for battleships and battlecruisers. This lets you jump 100Km in the direction you are pointing and large weapons can easily kill small targets burning straight toward you at that range.
What was said above, but… There are some ships that could still be effective with various weapon setups depending on mission. This would be more of a personal preference or very mission specific.
I normally just go for simple, large hybrid guns at range destroys everything in my Kronos.
Large weapons+ scripted tracking computers/ missile guidance to kill cruisers and battleships, drones kill small stuff. Can use t2 precision or faction ammo to help with tracking as well.
Or sentries+ cruise, at 50+ sentries blap small stuff and then apply dps to bigger ships.
Mentioned mjd is nice but with gated deadspace it kinda sucks. Need aim jumps perfectly and even if you do sometimes need make multiple jumps or land 30km off gate and slowboat… or fit mjd+prop mod but then you got a somewhat gimped fit (1 tracking/ capacitor/ shield tank mod less)
No. the most of the enemy EHP is in the BS, as soon as you can shoot everything quick enough you only need the most DPS, so large guns of the same type because splitting the guns type means splitting the damage mods so less damage.
My vargurs are MWD+MJD and can literally tank a angel ded5 head on (last room), after only killing the 3 web towers, without bastion.
I definitely don’t consider them as “gimped”. I use only MJD and bastion in the first room to get out of the gate, then kill everything.
The only case where it COULD make some kind of sense is on the matar ships that can both fit Large projectile turrets, and RHML because THEN they can use the RHML to shoot smaller target with precision missiles. But since small drones can do that as well and need less management (though they die frequently) , may as well save the fit for something more important.
Yes yes, I know it is not optimal. Not everything we do in Eve or life has to be meta. Some ships do give bonuses for more then one weapon type or size. So it technically can be done if preferred.
As I said I prefer simple, blasting away with my Kronos. But, I have also taken a Rattlesnake in various setups. Drone, missle, or a combo of both. Active or passive tank, at range or brawler. It all worked great. Taken various cruisers in lv4s, they worked great too. Sure they don’t have the dps of a battleships but still fun. It is a game after all.
mixing weapons has never been a great tactic. if you are only using a few launchers of each type npcs are going to have a lot more chances to rep which will just waste damage and time.
better to fit all cruise or rapid heavies and some application mods, can hit BC/BS with fury ammo, then cruisers and frigs with faction or precision. and ideally typically take the frigs out with drones.
Personally I have a bunch of different ships and fits to deal with whatever mission is at hand. Using a specific tool tends to work better than a generic one.
I was wondering if this was actually ever a thing, at least not outside of a new player not knowing any better.
I mean I’ve thrown a couple light launchers on my Loki, but that’s just because it only had 5 gun hardpoints out of 7 highs and i had to put something there.
Well yea, any ship that has utility highs you can throw whatever in, but specifically mixing and matching is what I’ve only seen when new players also dual tank their ships.
yea oldschool typhoon had 4 guns, 4 missiles, and a flight of heavy drones, was the ultimate bit of everything. A handful of other min ships had similar layouts until tiericide happened. And i get annoyed fitting a rattlesnake with drones and missiles, can’t imagine having to make fits with 3 weapon systems.
Also I’ve seen a few fits downsize a gun or two due to fitting reasons but that’s generally close range brawler where it doesn’t affect much since the ranges are so similar.
As a classicist, I do wish nerds would stop misusing “meta”. (And I know @Quor_Dresden was quoting someone else, so not aimed at him!) It means “beyond” or “after”. It has also come to mean “transcending” or “abstract”, derived from “beyond”. How the hell nerds then came to think it meant “convention” or “received wisdom”, particularly in computing terms, is beyond (SWIDT?) me.
Because meta gaming is about preparation in video game.
so in a spaceship game, gaming is how you play in the game, meta gaming is everything that is about the game but outside of you actually shooting people. In that sense, preparing a fit is meta gaming, just like preparing a defense fleet, or making diplomacy on the forum. And yes, it’s so broad that its lost any meaning.
You see, that is where I get cross, because, to me, fitting a ship (or the other examples you offer) is just as much a part of the game as pressing F1. (Or indeed F1 and F2 since this thread is about mixing weaponry ) There is no abstraction involved, or taking things to a higher level.
Anyway, at least we are in 100% agreement about the term losing its meaning. Bah, humbug.
you don’t need to be in a higher level to be meta X.
A meta language is a language. It’s just a language that talks about language.
In the same way, the meta game is the fact of playing against your opponents not in the game, but out of the game while still being linked to the game. Since preparation gives a huge benefit everybody knows that a good preparation is the key to victory.
If a game is a set of rules that allow you to interact and places you with a goal, then meta gaming is the game that allows you to prepare for instances of that game, against opponent with the same ability to prepare in the same game. When you fit your ship you are not fighting : you are preparing to fight.
BTW a real meta game is a “game about game”, eg like indy dev simulator. THE meta game refers to people preparing - but also propaganda, and any action that can be taken IRL in order to get an edge in the game, like asking people to bully someone else.
Alliance activity, eg on discord, is mainly meta game. In most competitive games, the meta game is the most important. So yes it’s taken such an important place that people often don’t understand the difference between the game and the meta game. But why would they care ?
) There is no abstraction involved, or taking things to a higher level.