More Female Villains

[Eney_Issier]

@DrysonBennington

Dude this is Eve Online…I’m talking Harley Quinn,

If you can describe the relationship aspect some female (and not only female) player can develop with a harley quinn of eve then I’m half ear on this.

Currently your putting out antagonizing aspects as main attraction however any character or lead needs sympathiable aspects.

To give an example, I was forming an idea for a story with two main leads, an amarr woman and a minmatar slave man.

Storyline was something akin to

For the female character:

A burned daughter uplifted by nuns nurtured by adversaries, steals from her people those which they seek to command most.

The female character would be:

• Daughter of an sarum heir being admiral - sympathyable for amarr, antagonizing for minmatar.
• Fell in love with minmatar male slave - icky for minmatar and amarr, eventuall sympathyable for gallente.
• The slave was burned and she was disowned by her father - partially sympathiable for amarr, partially sympathiable for minmatar.
• She was due to this infected with vitoc - revenge sympathiable for minmatar, revenge antagonizable for amarr.
• She was cast out to die and picked up by the sisters - sympathiable for humanists.
• She was delivered to the federation as refugee by the sisters - sympathiable for humanists.
• She was trained by the gallente military for a purpose - sympathiable for gallente.
• The purpose to infiltrate the empire - sympathiable for gallente and minmatar.
• She went rogue with a battle ready black ops - sympathiable for rebellious persons.
• She pirates slave transports and kills the personell retaining only the slaves - sympathiable for minmatar, antagonizing for amarr.
• She tends to deliver them back to minmatar worlds - sympathiable for minmatar and gallente, anatgonizing for amarr.
• However she sort of prepares them for a free live through hard educational means - sympathiable for gallente eventual caldari, antagonizing for minmatar.

And overall it would not have worked out, so I threw above in the bin.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Rail_J_kar

women are the primary caregivers for small children. Having a game where you can lose your ship if you get called away to deal with issues

That’s the same reason some employers discriminate against hiring women.

[Rail_J_kar]

@Aiko_Danuja

That’s the same reason some employers discriminate against hiring women.

So? If a company has a product they wish to market to a demographic, it’s not going to be successful unless they take into consideration the desires and needs of that demographic.

Obviously, as I said before, not all women will have the same needs, but that’s irrelevant. When you’re trying to achieve mass appeal, you aim for center mass, not the fringes.

And of course, ccp could just decide this isn’t an issue, and continue on like they have been, but the game will continue to be 90% male if they do so. It’s up to them to decide if they like that or not.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Rail_J_kar

So?

So, it’s discriminatory, and sexist.

Doubling down on your rhetoric won’t change that.

[Rail_J_kar]

@Aiko_Danuja

So, it’s discriminatory, and sexist.

Doubling down on your rhetoric won’t change that.

Really?

So you’re just going to burry your head in the sand and deny reality? If you don’t like it, work to change it, don’t just go around screeching at people. You wont get very far in life living that way.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Your argument is that women cannot handle this “hardcore” PvP video game, because they are female. That’s pretty much textbook sexism.

Your views do not reflect reality, they merely reflect your own bias.

@Rail_J_kar

You wont get very far in life living that way.

I’m doing quite well, both in real life and in game, thanks for the concern.

[Rail_J_kar]

@Aiko_Danuja

Your argument is that women cannot handle a PvP video game, because they are female. That’s pretty much textbook sexism.

Your views do not reflect reality, they merely reflect your own bias.

You are projecting. I didn’t say any of that. In fact, I said the exact opposite of that. There are women that play this game, and enjoy it quite a bit.

The thing is, if ccp wants more women to play this game (as a percentage of the playerbase,) the game needs to change. Spending resources trying to specifically attract more women, into a fringe activity, is a fools gambit. That’s not a smart way to run a business.

And as I said before, CCP doesn’t have to change anything. They can carry on as normal, and just focus on making the best game they can. The women who enjoy this sort of game will gravitate toward it, but if they do that, there will always be a majory male player base. The statistics are quite clear on that matter.

It’s not because women “can’t handle a pvp game,” it’s because when the majority of women look at a game like this, they say, “no thanks,” because they’re not interested.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Rail_J_kar

I don’t say any of that. In fact, I said the exact opposite of that.

You said, and I am quoting you verbatim:

@Rail_J_kar

women are the primary caregivers for small children. Having a game where you can lose your ship if you get called away to deal with issues is not going to endear yourself to this demographic

That’s textbook sexism, arguing that women are inferior or less capable or have less ability than men, because they might have children. You claim the game is too challenging for women, and it needs to be easier to accommodate their “needs”. You go on to suggest that the game should be more like “the sims” (your words), with more “simcity” features and customizable clothing, with more opportunities for women to preen themselves in front of a mirror. That is what you wrote.

@Rail_J_kar

If you want more women in EVE then the game needs to fundamentally change.

The game is fine - your sexism is the problem.

@Rail_J_kar

Spaceships are inanimate objects and generally lack the human aspect that women tend to find more appealing. This could be changed a bit, if CCP were to make use of the volumetric cloud tech they have to create 3d overlay skins… to effectively turn your ship into a kitten or other small fury animal

You are arguing that women don’t like spaceships, and CCP needs to add small cute animals to attract us. Yes, that’s sexist. There are a lot of women who have an interest in aerospace engineering and science-fiction. In fact, some have even gone to space!

[Rail_J_kar]

@Aiko_Danuja

arguing that women are inferior or less capable or have less ability than men, because they might have children.

Where did I argue that?

@Aiko_Danuja

You claim that the game is too hard for women, and it needs to be easier for them.

Where did I claim that?

@Aiko_Danuja

You go on to suggest that the game should be more like “the sims” (your words), with more “simcity” features and customizable clothing.

Do not the majority of women gravitate toward such things? Who is the primary demographic for the sims?

I’ll give you a clue. 60% of Sims 4 Players Are Women Aged 18-24

@Aiko_Danuja

That’s sexist.

I think you need to go read a dictionary

@Aiko_Danuja

The game is fine - your sexism is the problem.

You’re projecting.

@Aiko_Danuja

You are actually arguing that women don’t like spaceships, and CCP needs to add small cute animals to attract us. Yes, that’s sexist.

This is based on hard science. I don’t have the study in front of me, but it’s pretty solidly understood that women (as a group) favor living things with mammalian faces over inanimate objects.

@Aiko_Danuja

There are a lot of women who have an interest in aerospace engineering and science-fiction. In fact, some have even gone to space!

Once again, I’m not disputing that. Why is it that when I talk about generalist trends, you come back with fringe examples of how that’s not true?

And no, it’s not sexist… it’s reality. It’s based on understanding the choices the average woman desires.

And the thing is, if all you want to do is attract the women that you’re specifically talking about, CCP doesn’t have to do anything differently. You’re already playing EVE. But you’re also not the average woman. So we’ll continue to have 90% male populations.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Rail_J_kar

Where did I argue that?

Here is a link to your own post (you can click the blue text, and please don’t lose the link, as I’m not going to handhold you through your own rant). I’ll also quote it again below, which you can take a screenshot of, or do whatever you need to do so that you can remember your own argument. If you are having difficulty finding the exact passage, you can use ctrl+f and search for your words.

@Rail_J_kar

women are the primary caregivers for small children. Having a game where you can lose your ship if you get called away to deal with issues is not going to endear yourself to this demographic

This one is also pretty sexist, and I’ll link it again since you are pretending you didn’t write it:

@Rail_J_kar

Spaceships are inanimate objects and generally lack the human aspect that women tend to find more appealing. This could be changed a bit, if CCP were to make use of the volumetric cloud tech they have to create 3d overlay skins… to effectively turn your ship into a kitten or other small fury animal

Personally, I hope CCP adds a pumpkin spice latte, or does a sale on clogs.

@Rail_J_kar

It’s based on understanding the choices the average woman desires.

You are quite the expert, I can tell! Thank you for mansplaining what women really want!

[Rail_J_kar]

@Aiko_Danuja

Here is a link to your own post (you can click the blue text, and please don’t lose the link, as I’m not going to handhold you through your own diatribe). I’ll also quote it again below, which you can take a screenshot of, or do whatever you need to do so that you can remember your own argument. If you are having difficulty finding the exact passage, you can use ctrl+f and search for your words.

@Rail_J_kar

women are the primary caregivers for small children. Having a game where you can lose your ship if you get called away to deal with issues is not going to endear yourself to this demographic

Oh I wrote it, but it’s not sexist nor is it “arguing that women are inferior or less capable or have less ability than men, because they might have children.” Perhaps it is “sexist” according to the new changed definitions that fit with modern leftist viewpoints, but originally that word meant the belief that “one sex was superior to another.” The reality of the matter is women are the primary care givers. Up to 81% of all caregivers, formal and informal, are female

You can scream about that being sexist all you want, it doesn’t change the facts.

@Aiko_Danuja

This one is also pretty sexist, and I’ll link it again since you are pretending you didn’t write it:

@Rail_J_kar

Spaceships are inanimate objects and generally lack the human aspect that women tend to find more appealing. This could be changed a bit, if CCP were to make use of the volumetric cloud tech they have to create 3d overlay skins… to effectively turn your ship into a kitten or other small fury animal

It’s also based on reality. In this study, results showed that men prefer working with things and women prefer working with people.

Here’s another less nerdy source. From an article dated July of 2019, Hannah Brown, the bachelorette, had an Instagram following that was 94% female, primarily in the 18-24 range.

Are you really claiming a business that wants to attract customers should just ignore these facets of people’s personal choices and slam their head against reality? Call it sexist all you want, you’re just living in a fantasy if you ignore these things.

There’s nothing inherently superior about any of this, it’s just what people are drawn to.

@Aiko_Danuja

@Rail_J_kar

It’s based on understanding the choices the average woman desires.

You are quite the expert, I can tell! Thank you for mansplaining what women really want!

You do seem to be confused.

While you may be an expert on what you want, you’re no more qualified to tell me what other women are interested in than I am. As such, I’m not leaning on my own expertise, the things I’ve mentioned in this thread are based on scientific studies.

Also, pretty sure you assumed my gender, isn’t that a bit of a faux pas in the circles you run? I haven’t mentioned it at all, because it’s irrelevant. The fact that you feel the need to break it out at this point, just shows you lack confidence in the validity of your argument.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

More female villains or heroes or whatever is great and everything, but can we do something about the total lack of femboy NPCs? This demographic isn’t merely underrepresented; it is entirely unrepresented in EVE’s lore, and it should be a priority to get some femboys into the game’s story lines as soon as possible.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Rail_J_kar

The reality of the matter

As I already stated, doubling down on sexism does not mean you are right. You can pretend that you are scientific, but just like “scientific” racism, you are still in the wrong.

@Rail_J_kar

Perhaps it is “sexist” according to the new changed definitions that fit with modern

Yes, welcome to the 21st Century.

[Rail_J_kar]

How is that even possible to represent without being sexually explicit?

[Rail_J_kar]

@Aiko_Danuja

As I already stated, doubling down on sexism does not mean you are right.

And repeatedly claiming I’m sexiest doesn’t make it true.

@Aiko_Danuja

ou can pretend that you are scientific, but just like “scientific” racism, you are still in the wrong.

Oh so now I’m racist huh? Sure, whatever.

I love how these types of conversations always devolve to this level of kindergarten level vocabulary.

@Aiko_Danuja

welcome to the 21st Century.

The century of the ill informed apparently.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Ok, you win, women are just fragile little superficial shallow creatures with weak anatomy and children, so they just need a BIG STRONG WHITEKNIGHT to come rescue them from anything which might break a nail. Therefore, in order to attract more women, we need to give them cute little outfits which they can try on in front of a mirror, and little kittens which jump on the freighters.

[Rail_J_kar]

@Aiko_Danuja

Ok, you win, women are just fragile little superficial shallow creatures

The fact that you can have a conversation with me, after apparently reading what I wrote, and come to that conclusion shows a serious lack of reading comprehension on your part.

@Aiko_Danuja

in order to attract more women, we need to give them cute little outfits which they can try on in front of a mirror, and little kittens which jump on the freighters.

Yes, that would help. but not entirely. The game itself isn’t appealing to most women.

EVE

1. takes too much time.
2. looks like some sort of office application.
3. is too grimdark.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Please, we need more clothing options, that’s the only reason to log in.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Rail_J_kar

How is that even possible to represent without being sexually explicit?

Why would it be sexual?

I’m just saying that, for example, the FW and high-sec wardec communities feel underrepresented when their members aren’t able to receive front line updates from event NPCs or interact with locator agents who look like this:

…And are forced to look at yet another generic, randomly-generated “slab of meat” or “professional woman with glasses” NPC that CCP barfed up.

I’m sorry, but…

…Simply isn’t inclusive enough in 2023.

[Rail_J_kar]

Ahh ok, I guess I misunderstood your ask. looks like you want male specific cat ears and dresses.

That seems like the sort of thing you’d have to walk around in a station to get the full appreciation for. Maybe in a dark corner in Zarzakh.