Nerf Ganking Megathread

[Ax_l_Thorne]

This dun gunna be good…

[Ramona_McCandless]

It wasnt. Just more unsupported suppositions.

[Ax_l_Thorne]

Meh. There has more meat to it than his normal posts, but a lot of it requires citations, else it’s just nonsense he’s pulling out of his rear.

@Jesse_W_James

I feel those types of things are still confusing to new players, and giving them ample time to understand more of the game doesn’t hurt anything.

Also, feelings don’t define reality. I feel statements are great for sharing feelings but undermine logical arguments.

@Jesse_W_James

It is an old post, but I know CCP has said this in the past. The time is changing, and 2015 is not 2022, we simply have a different crowd, and older players are leaving all the time. We need new players to come in.

Yes, there is nothing of value to glean here. Move along. Old information has no value whatsoever. It’s July 2022, not June 2022.

Citation needed for the claim that “it’s a different crowd.” Did you do a study? Where is the collected data?

“Older players leave all the time.” Well yes, that’s true. But so do newer players. What’s your definition of “older player” anyway. And how do you know it’s just older players leaving? Have you done a study and interview each player that has left to gather the metrics to make this claim? Is the rate of older players leaving the game exceeding newer players leaving the game?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Jesse_W_James]

@Qia_Kare

It seems to me that, as a group, ‘Sith’, if we’re using that term, treat the game world and what goes on in it as separate from the real world and what goes on there. If someone inflicts some in game loss on a ‘Sith’ type individual, it is no big deal. The ‘Jedi’, on the other hand, seem to have a tendency to equate the two. An assault on their ship is an assault on their person, and they escalate an in game conflict to an out of game one, hence the spectacular meltdowns in local chat.

I think the “Jedi” do more of what I’d call griefing by gaslighting ‘Sith’ into thinking that they’re bad people, or by saying things that are straight up vile and hurtful to make their play as unwholesome and miserable as they possibly can.

Well start ganking in 250M isk ships, and see how it goes for you.

JJ

[Jesse_W_James]

@Ax_l_Thorne

Also, feelings don’t define reality. I feel statements are great for sharing feelings but undermine logical arguments.

This is a forum, and everything is opinion. So should we pull the plug on anything in the forum opinion?

@Ax_l_Thorne

Citation needed for the claim that “it’s a different crowd.” Did you do a study? Where is the collected data?

Yes I did.

Did you do a study that wasn’t a different crowd?

@Ax_l_Thorne

“Older players leave all the time.” Well yes, that’s true. But so do newer players. What’s your definition of “older player” anyway. And how do you know it’s just older players leaving? Have you done a study and interview each player that has left to gather the metrics to make this claim? Is the rate of older players leaving the game exceeding newer players leaving the game?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Again you facts are as good as mine. PCU numbers are going down, do you think they are all new players?

JJ

[Ax_l_Thorne]

@Jesse_W_James

This is a forum, and everything is opinion. So should we pull the plug on anything in the forum opinion?

Nice red herring.

@Jesse_W_James

Yes I did.

Link please

@Jesse_W_James

Did you do a study that wasn’t a different crowd?

Another red herring. Not part of the claims or argument made.

@Jesse_W_James

Again you facts are as good as mine. PCU numbers are going down, do you think they are all new players?

I have no idea. You made the claim. Where’s your evidence to back it up? I didn’t make any claim one way or the other. Nice try trying to distract the burden of proof tho.

I give you a B/5 for trolling.

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Jesse_W_James

new players

What are you basing your assumption that new players dont want to do ganking on, anyway?

[Qia_Kare]

What is the point you’re trying to make here? That every ship should be immune to death by a force brought to bear of lesser value?

[Jesse_W_James]

See that is the thing Ax’l this isn’t a science experiment, I don’t need to go hunt facts for you. Nor for me, we are gamers, not developers and we won’t have the number you or I. The entire discussion is around ganking, and what it creates which is one sided content and greifing. Then are those balanced or not, which griefing needs to be pushed completely out of the game. Ganking needs to be looked at and balanced. Do your content and keep that plex market hot.

JJ

[Jesse_W_James]

None, I am sure some new players may fall into that. Naturally, for humans it isn’t to destroy each other, it is to work together, and thus it would be the minority.

And where were you want to take this point?

JJ

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Jesse_W_James

Naturally, for humans it isn’t to destroy each other, it is to work together

On what do you base that on? The ability and frequency in history of humans working together to destroy each other?

[Jesse_W_James]

The point Eve is typically N+1 game except in ganking. If you were trying to make a living in a ganking ship at 250M a pop you could see how frustration would rise. You were making comments about this in your post, but gankers don’t they risk 12M ships fully fitted, which no one cares about. It is like a vet losing a procure mining, they could care less about the loss, it is meaningless to them.

When you see real PvP in Eve the on good battles the isk war is fairly close, not perfect but fairly close. Ganking is 3 times that in most cases, and I know the what I posted was a huge difference but that is cargo as well, and yes I would agree that shouldn’t fully count and fair enough. But we still have a unbalanced system.

JJ

[Ax_l_Thorne]

If you’re going to make claims that suggest you have real numbers backing them up, then you need to link the supporting documents. Otherwise you’re deliberately being misleading. This isn’t science buddy. It’s good old fashion due diligence

[Jesse_W_James]

Basic psychology go watch Jordan Peterson on YouTube; plenty for you to learn. He has some very good point in life, and a couple great books as well.

JJ

[Vokan_Narkar]

@Shipwreck_Jones

@Jesse_W_James

The issue is nowadays to get you up to date is that no one is being ganked with one ship. The average T2 miner looks to be hit with 10-20 ships.

That’s an exageration, but you are right in that gankers are throwing more ships at barges. However, they aren’t doing it all willy nilly; it’s because ganking nerfs have resulted in the need to do so. If you look at the math, it straight up takes more gankers to kill miners than it used to. Naturally, this can be changed by buffing ganking/nerfing barges, but I’m thinking most miners aren’t going to be thrilled about that.

Wait did he really wrote that? Loooool.

So let me recapitulate.

First they cry that we only need two catalysts to kill their ship. After CCP listens to them and buff their ships so hard that most gankers has given up entirely because now we need at least 5 catalyst, now they cry that we are throwing too many ships on them?

I can’t. This is too much. I am leaving this thread for good. I guess I find something better to do while waiting on Jita 4-4 undock for prey because this is too stressful.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Im sorry that you are unable or unwilling to answer the question.

However this is the third time one of the pillars of your argument has had no foundation, therefore you are pretty much just making unfounded statements.

[Jesse_W_James]

I was being a smarta$$ to your onesided post. I should come to the forum with all my homework done? Should I raise my hand to speak as well? Let’s be very clear, I don’t need to bring my homework to be here. As I don’t ask you to bring yours.

If you want to bring some real data in the game great, but the data we need that would be most helpful is gone, with the people that left the game and never performed a survey on why.

JJ

[Qia_Kare]

This still sounds to me like you’re saying a ship should not die purely because it is more expensive than the ship or ships that shot it.

[Jesse_W_James]

@Vokan_Narkar

Wait did he really wrote that? Loooool.

So let me recapitulate.

First they cry that we only need two catalysts to kill their ship. After CCP listens to them and buffs their ships so hard that most gankers has given up entirely because now we need at least 5 catalysts, now they cry that we are throwing too many ships on them?

I can’t. This is too much. I am leaving this thread for good. I guess I find something better to do while waiting on Jita 4-4 undock for prey because this is too stressful.

Yes I purposefully overthrew the numbers as ships example was one ship. Later in the thread, I came clean as we both did don’t worry.

And no one is crying about the number, the conversation was can one really stand and fight or not. The answer is no you can’t. 5-8 ships coming in, high alpha dps, and you are dying.

Your not leaving the threads we both know you are too bored to find something else to do with your time.

JJ

[Jesse_W_James]

@Qia_Kare

This still sounds to me like you’re saying a ship should not die purely because it is more expensive than the ship or ships that shot it.

I don’t know what to say, stay confused I suppose.

JJ