Nerf Ganking Megathread

[Aiko_Danuja]

That’s really not true.

Lucas has lobbed more than one personal attack against me, and others.

[Ferdiad_Silver]

@Scipio_Artelius

Over all of the years we’ve been on the forum together, I might not agree with your views, nor how arguments are sometimes put to sound more credible than they are, but you always stick to the topic and not the person. Respect for that.

I don’t think you’ve been watching too closely. He might not be as base about it as some. However he regularly resorts to a ‘thanks for proving you know nothing about the game’ or calling people ‘deluded’ and so on. Typically this happens when he cannot back up his assertions as being anything more than opinions after he has stated them as facts.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

Again, marketing. People sell garbage products all the time. There’s a sucker born every minute and all that.

LOL. But somehow this garbage product has spawned a whole genre and influenced games even outside it’s medium. Hell single player games are now implementing battle pass and seasons LOL.

I mean I get why you can’t admit it. It just makes me literally LOL at you dude. Imagine being a grown man and simply this wrong and this pressed LOL.

You can’t even admit reality ROFL.

@Lucas_Kell

Sure, it was indeed a great way to separate idiots from their money, the pinnacle of capitalism. That doesn’t make it a great game.

So why do you support EVE if it’s also P2W LOL.

@Lucas_Kell

I’ve constantly attempted to remain rational

Whew chile the gas lighting.

@Lucas_Kell

emotionally driven behaviour

My guy, you’re the only emotional one here LOL.

@Lucas_Kell

you’re attempting to anger me

You’re already angry We can feel the boomer rage coming off you.

@Scipio_Artelius

I would disagree with that, but totally agree that you rarely if ever attack anyone.

LOL he attacks people all the time. He’s done a ton of times in this thread already. He’s already demonstrated his bad faith argument.

@Ferdiad_Silver

Typically this happens when he cannot back up his assertions as being anything more than opinions after he has stated them as facts.

Chip truth omae.

Just like how he can’t admit Fortnite was a game changer LOL.

[Ferdiad_Silver]

@Gix_Firebrand

Just like how he can’t admit Fortnite was a game changer LOL.

Isn’t fornite just re-hashing minecraft/arma pvp to be more shooty and cartoony?

Don’t get me wrong I’ve never played it. I’m to old to compete in FPS now. Quake was my generation. That is just my impression from having watched the adverts.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Ferdiad_Silver

Isn’t fornite just re-hashing minecraft/arma pvp to be more shooty and cartoony?

Don’t get me wrong I’ve never played it. I’m to old to compete in FPS now. Quake was my generation. That is just my impression from having watched the adverts.

Sorta kinda but not really. Fortnite is made by the same guys who made GoW.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate the battle pass system and the idea of seasons.

But you can’t deny it has shaped the current gaming meta heavily now.

[Jaurl_Kurvora]

Another twitch streamer has decided to take their content elsewhere because of griefers & toxicity if CCP need more evidence this is hurting the game?

[Altara_Zemara]

Can you explain to me why a ganker would want to get Concorded in their Catalyst, and then Concorded a few minutes later in a Velator. I see one solo ganker in killboard doing this again and again and I don’t see the purpose of it.

[Iceacid_Frostpacker]

Concorded in their Catalyst, and then Concorded a few minutes later in a Velator.

This will be juicy!

[Altara_Zemara]

@Wadiest_Yong

You fabricated 97 posts in this thread over a couple of days to “express” your views, while dodging all rational exchange with every trick you can think of, mostly by repetition.

I’ve had the same with Lucas on other threads. There’s zero ‘discussing’ anything…as all counterfactual opinion or even direct evidence is just ignored. He wants everyone else to look at things ‘objectively’ ( a word he is very fond of ) yet considers only his own opinion to be objective.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Altara_Zemara

Can you explain to me

I certainly can!

[Altara_Zemara]

@Aiko_Danuja

I certainly can!

Aww…go on. I mean I did let your guys ‘gank’ me today

Speaking of which, I don’t see Lucas making donations to noobs.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

I’m not sure that’s true. The genre predates Fortnite, they just marketed it better. Battle passes and season passes absolutely predate Fortnite and the entire battle royale genre.

LOL even so, you can’t argue that Fortnite is what made it explode and made other genres of games adopt the model. Sorry bro, reality is reality.

@Lucas_Kell

There’s nothing inherently wrong with P2W. And while I see EVE going downhill as they focus more on that and less on improving actual gameplay, I’ve been here since pretty near the beginning and I plan to be here at the end.

How is EVE P2W?

@Jaurl_Kurvora

Another twitch streamer has decided to take their content elsewhere because of griefers & toxicity if CCP need more evidence this is hurting the game?

LOL live streaming yourself in EVE is asking to get blapped.

Stream snipers happen in all games. Cry moar.

@Altara_Zemara

Can you explain to me why a ganker would want to get Concorded in their Catalyst, and then Concorded a few minutes later in a Velator. I see one solo ganker in killboard doing this again and again and I don’t see the purpose of it.

Pulling CONCORD for timer.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

I can argue that. It’s based on nothing more than your feelings.

Uh. Feelings? You mean like how there are tons of BRs now and almost every genre of game implements some of pass/season system?

LOL.

Even older games like For Honor have switched over.

My guy at least have the dignity to acknowledge the point LOL. I’m not saying you have to love Fortnite. I’m saying you gotta acknowledge what it did LOL.

@Lucas_Kell

Because it implements multiple P2W mechanics.

How so LOL. I see you aren’t very keen on specifics.

I wonder why

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

Correlation does not imply causation.

ROFL. That’s all you got?

And you completely dodged the other question ROFL.

its so funny to see you slowly run out of steam and unable to rebut reality.

It is delicious

[Ramona_McCandless]

If anything thats evidence of the opposite.

Streamers are the devil

[Syzygium]

@Lucas_Kell

I’ve constantly attempted to remain rational while those talking against me have done nothing but lob insults, accuse me of being a troll and all sorts of other emotionally driven behaviour

Sorry, but people may not answer you nicely because you called them a “cancer” and want to straight ban them from the game? You seem to be on a crusade, which means talking to you does not make much sense for rational people, which is part of the reason why I have not replied to your suggestions so far. But let me tell you this: I am absolutely not emotionally involved in the whole “ganking issue” because I never was ganked, I don’t gank and I am just curious what all the fuzz is about, but I disagree with you in most points. Mainly because making some ships magically invulnerable is just bad game design. People would just begin to abuse them in 1001 ways. Also criminal activity is part of EVERY society, has ever been, will ever be. HighSec Criminal Gameplay should be actively designed (yeah its horrible in it’s current form), but not banned. Rational enough?

[Uriel_the_Flame]

They are pulling CONCORD:

When CONCORD has already spawned elsewhere in the system but is not yet on grid, the response time is significantly increased. In this case, it will take about 19 seconds for them to arrive and start firing in a 0.6 system, and 24 seconds in a 0.5 system.

If CONCORD has already spawned in the system and is not on grid, suicide gankers will have more time to apply damage. In these circumstances, it’s possible for a Thrasher to do 3,000 EHP damage in a 0.6 system.

All methods of delaying CONCORD’s response are considered an exploit by CCP. However, the technique of “pulling”, which is the act of moving CONCORD from one location to another, is not considered a delay of CONCORD: Exploit Notification Delaying CONCORD Response

---

Source: https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD#Response_times

[Syzygium]

@Lucas_Kell

I don’t want to ban them. I’ve wanted their playstyle balanced out and to have new players shielded from the negative effects, but am quite happy for the playstyle to be removed. Either way they should be able to stay in the game.

So this isn’t you:

@Lucas_Kell

Gankers are a cancer and should be cut out of the game.

What other meaning then “straight ban them!” could this line possibly have, especially viewed in the context of other phrases where you called them toxic, bullies, bad to the bone etc. pp. which clearly means the persons behind the accounts, not the ingame characters?

@Lucas_Kell

There’s nothing “magical” about it. Ships have safety locks, ships in highsec can be affected by policies laid out by faction operating highsec (such as the inability to deploy cynos or bubbles) and fields affecting ship stats. There’s no reason that AIR couldn’t force a safety lockout for targeting certain ships and buff resistances to certain types of damage.

Then why should the empires maintain an overwhelmingly costly fleet of thousands and thousands of Battleships, Cruisers, Frigates and whatever, instead of just applying these “locks” to every ship in HighSec, so safety is strictly green for everyone? Does not make any sense. And how would it apply to PirateFaction Ships, which are built from modified blueprints which wouldn’t have such safety features built-in for sure?

@Lucas_Kell

Sure, and I’ve asked how people would abuse them in any meaningful way and so far people have managed to come up with “People might start hauling in frigates!” which is functionally no different from what they can already do in faster, tankier ships.

It is extremly different if I can send BlueLoot, RedLoot, BPOs, T2 BPCs, Morphite, Purple/BlueLoot in significant amounts completely unkillable AFK from A to B while watching Netflix. I can do that now in a tanked ship, but every tank can be broken if someone wants the cargo just badly enough.

@Lucas_Kell

Just FYI, this is a video game. But if you want to play it that way, OK. In our societies when you murder someone you get locked up for a decade or two, so when gankers get jailed we can talk about parallels with real life.

Since it also needs years of training and some masters degree in whatever science or engineering to even be considered fit flying a spaceship in our society, but in EVE it only takes 2 clicks and 5 minutes of skill training to board a completely new ship classe, we might speed up that process a bit, not?
I am with you that the current consequences for ganking are completely ridiculous and even -10 means absolutely nothing any more, but your way to “balance” it is just the wrong one.

[Syzygium]

@Lucas_Kell

Removal of the mechanic.

I don’t like it. Part of the fascination of EVE is, that I have the freedom to act how I see fit as long as I am willing to face the consequences. I agree that the consequences of bad sec-status should be a lot more severe, but I don’t want the freedom to be gone.

@Lucas_Kell

Maybe they should!

Obviously they can’t. Because the limitations are not part of the “clone license” (any licence can just be broken any time anyway if there is no system in place that actively enforces them). The HighSec limitations are hardcoded in the module and ship blueprints, thats why these modules don’t work in certain areas. Pirate Ships & Modules could possibly breach these hardcoded limitations by using Pirate Blueprints, but guess what, there are no PirateBombers, PirateCynos, Pirate HICs & Dictors etc pp…

@Lucas_Kell

It’s not just about tank though. There are plenty of fits that are 100% ungankable if not left idle in space and can carry as much if not more than a frigate. It’s simply a fantasy that veterans would benefit from this.

And the difference you just named: “if not left idle in space”. Currently you have to be active to prevent being ganked. With an invulnerability mechanic you just load 5b of WH loot into a frig and send it afk to Jita. Thats not what I want to see.

@Lucas_Kell

Why would they speed up jail sentences? It’s more likely they’d just biomass criminals when caught.

Please stop comparing Ganking with “murder” or any capitcal crime. Capsuleers don’t really die, even if podded, they just transfer to a new clone. But yeah, I agree (as said multiple times now) that the consequences of ganking should be a lot more severe.

@Lucas_Kell

So then offer constructive alternatives. The problem is that people gank newbies in unprofitable ganks and that is impacting new player churn.

I am well aware of what you think the problem is and have offered constructive alternatives already. But in the end it’s CCPs game and they must choose how they want to deal with the issue. Maybe they don’t see such a big problem at all to take action yet.
Bur rest assured, my “solutions” would create an outrage of the gankers as well, mainly because the would need to “work” for their kills then.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Lucas_Kell

They’re pulling concord away from the gank site.

Which means as he’s actually losing ISK ( his Catalyst is 5.4m and the Ventures are 2m or so ) he literally has to pod the Venture owner every time even to just break even on kills vs losses. Which all seems a bit pointless.

But I will have some fun with him in a well shielded and armed to the teeth Venture