Nerfing Capitals vs Nerfing Plexed Capital Multiboxing: Capitals allowed on cash paid subs only

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
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The thing is this just delegates it to an inactive alt ship.
CCP have also been moving away from afk/alt based gameplay, which your proposal of the Rorqual moves straight back in that direction.

The idea of miners “swapping ships” or an on call escort fleet is a joke myth that is perpetuated by people. When it’s already some of the lowest income activity you aren’t going to get on call fleets. You might have the general alliance standing fleet but that isn’t specific to the miners.

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This is true, but in the specific context of mining command ships I believe it is a necessary and acceptable exception to permit these ships to be largely AFK or run by alts. Not that they are ENTIRELY AFK, mind you… jet cans jettison frequently and targeting/tractoring them isn’t exactly passive even in smaller ops with only a handful of people. When gankers drop on you and you’re equipped with logi, you need to prioritize your reps. It’s not exactly hands on, but certainly no less than operating the mining ships themselves. (And if you really want to be hands on, you can always play Project Discovery :nerd_face: .)

This is mostly true, but CCP has been making changes over the years that are making this more and more into a reality via necessity (trigs in belts, resource redistribution, etc), and those who fail to utilize this mode of operation will quickly succumb to gankers.

Particular points worth mentioning:

  • The fact that you are fielding expensive ships to engage in a low ROI activity gives cause to defend those ships since otherwise they take forever to recoup their losses. That the majority of people fail to do so is their problem, but that does not serve as evidence to suggest that it isn’t a viable methodology or that mining without combat readiness should be the norm.
  • Standing fleets aren’t always available; especially for smaller groups operating in HS. True, they aren’t fielding Rorquals in HS, but notion that an Orca harbors combat ships and, optionally, that the mining fleet could be defended is still applicable
  • Resource distribution is reallocating a limited pool of resources into limited regions of space, thereby driving conflict over those limited resource in those limited regions. Many mining ops that take place in NS should shift to LS and from LS to HS for these materials, and as a result there will be more combat to fight over them. In the case of HS, you have a situation where either more wardecs will arise on groups sporting miners, or more suicide ganks will occur - in order to preserve the availability of those resources - against war-immune miners. (That, and more suicide ganks will occur anyway simply because there will be more miners.)

Basically I feel that the myth is already a reality among the smart players (who don’t have access to standing fleets at a moment’s notice), and will increasingly become a reality as a result of changes CCP has made and is continuing to make.

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No they haven’t because they’ve also been making the command ships into capable DPS platforms and remote reps.
Which means they clearly intend the command ships to be what deals with these threats. Given both changes have been happening at once.

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The above commentary was strictly about mining command motherships - Orca and Rorqual. What about them is particularly fierce DPS-wise? Logi is perfectly fine, as is PANIC.

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I would agree with that if dscan can be improved

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Particularly fierce no. But enough to deal with npcs. Yes for the most part. They get significant damage bonuses to drones. And can easily fit damage amps.

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Why change dscan?

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I’ve always thought the removal of local would make way for another type of intel tool. I was really hoping that the blackout experiment would give us insight into what kind of tool we could have or needed.

Like a d-scan that shows standings/tickers within a certain range. Different ships having different d-scan ranges. Or a local that displays corp/alliance/fleet AND what ships those people are in. Delays on cynos.

The above may have been a middleground that wasn’t so drastic as just taking local out completely.

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CCP replaced the system wide warfare links with command bursts in the fall of 2016. Up to that point, Orca and Rorqual would boost an entire system from the safety of a POS forcefield. Only ALTS were used for this job.

Command bursts forced the ships on-grid and they were allowed to use mining drones so the boosting pilot had something to do. Interestingly, the consensus was that few players would risk the big ships on grid so CCP reworked the risk/reward balance to encourage people to use them. In classic CCP fashion, they went way too far with the Rorqual and it has been nerfed several times since then.

The current consensus seems to be that the ships are OK. The problem is the infinite supply of ore. People aren’t likely to multibox Rorqual (or Orca) fleets if there isn’t enough ore to make it worthwhile. Make the rocks smaller and more spread out. There is still more than enough ore in New Eden to sustain the economy - but you no longer have an infinite supply delivered to your doorstep.

Bear in mind that paying with PLEX earns CCP 33% more than paying with cash. Disregarding volume discounts and sales for simplicity, somebody paid $20 to buy 500 PLEX, the subscription cost is only $15.

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Thank you and all others for the replies. I also feel the Rorqs and Orcas are quite good how they are now, although I think the Rorq still a little to OP and the Orca a little to under-powered. More important as already stated, CCP introduced these Mining Foremanshsips as being both: Powerful platforms of both mining support and mining capability, and I definately want them to stay this way. ALso in the light of SOLOPLAYERS, which I many times am, I love the versatility multi platform the Orca is, I enormously enjoy this. As said before, nerf these ships to much and they become to boring.

The current consensus seems to be that the ships are OK. The problem is the infinite supply of ore.

Yes, this is also how I see it, thank you!

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Just to puncture this myth.
This is only true if you buy plex in minimum sized bundles.
If you buy it like a whale does they get to specifically negotiate rates with CCP, so Plex likely are as cheap if not cheaper than a subscription at that rate.

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