guys, can you explain these for me, if say 1 neut can cut down the effective cap you have to use, say a 250 amount on the neut, and you have 3-4 so 750 ish, does this then mean for example my cruiser will have to take on frigs only? as a cruiser and above have a lot more cap than that?
I’m using a legion/strat as an example which have 3 neuts fitted, or am I missing how they work
thanks for time n help
Most pvp ships are not cap stable, or are barely cap stable. Neut them long enough and eventually their cap runs dry.
Picking through the question I gather it’s “given the Neutralizer says 250GJ and I’ve three is it only usable against a Frigate because cruiser capacitors are bigger than 750GJ?”
It’s three each doing that level of neutralisation to the target each cycle - which on a medium neut is about 10 seconds or so. So you are putting another 75GJ/sec or so load on his capacitor. That’s a lot more that he can recharge - even my stable big battery HACs only recharge at half that (they’re cracking mission ships btw).
It’s not an “instant off switch” but a progressive suffocation of your opponent - eventually your opponent will be so drained you can turn all but one neut off - that one will be enough to keep him empty.
And with out a capacitor your enemy can’t repair, can’t move at speed, in a lot of cases is very limited in the ability to hurt you and unable to apply warp disruption and webbing it you.
So, you grab them, put your weapons and neuts on them and let them cycle. They slowly stop being able to act, and all they can do is sit there and watch you slowly grind through their ship.
Very Amarrian.
That’s overly simplistic: read the university article for more details and how someone can counter it.
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Capacitor_warfare
In practice you’ll run a mix of neuts and Nosferatu, and cycle them in sequence to drain them down. It’s very capacitor demanding on the attacker and you have to be alert to the target using cap boosters and careful cap management by some targets.
And you need to survive long enough to shut him down - he’ll want to get his big punches in while he can. And drones, missiles and projectiles don’t need capacitor.
No, it’s not an “off switch” but it’s a miserable thing to be on the receiving end of. Many combat pilots will put a neut in a spare high slot because of the problems you can cause with it - especially against actively tanked opponents. That little extra pressure that shifts the initiative.
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thank you guys, good explanation Terak, I was misunderstanding the neut mechanics, I didn’t realise they kept diminishing, not just for example stopped an opponent using just 250…doh!
thank you
you also want to take note that your/(your opponents) capacitor does not recharge at a constant rate. As the capacitor gets lower it starts recharging faster and faster until it reaches a peak recharge rate at about 33% remaining capacitor after that the recharge rate beings to plummet like a rock. Shield recharge rate works the same way.
so you are recharging more at 33% than you were at 66% and you are recharging more at 66% then you are at 15%
at exactly 25%.
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Capacitor
- Your capacitor will recharge faster the closer you are to 25% of your maximum.
yep but you balance on that number as even an experienced player let alone some one just learning recharge mechanics your going to die just because of how fast you start to drop once you hit even 24% why the golden number is 33% and why I used about rather than exact
nope.
The PEAK is 25%.
thus your sentence :
is wrong.
The PEAK is the point where the acceleration reaches zero, that is the recharge was increasing before and will decrease after. That definition means, it’s reached at exactly 25%, not 33%. Claiming the peak is 33% is thus a complete nonsense.
Your cap recharge rate, expressed on base 1 (with 1 being your max recharge), function on your cap ratio c (1 at max cap) is cr = 4*(sqrt(c)-c).
- at 0.25 you recharge 1 times your max rate.
- at 0.33 it is 0.978.
- at 0.24 it is 0.999.
- at 0.2 it is 0.989
- at 0.18 it is 0.977
basically, you have the same rate at 18% cap that at 33% cap.
So those claims that “0.24 you don’t recharge” are factually wrong.
I think you are getting too much into technicalities. The truth is that at 25% any activation of any module or even minimal neuts may push you into that plummeting regen. Working with 33% is safe, 25% is balancing on the edge of very sharp blade.
I edited. This is complete ■■■■■■■■.
You recharge as much at 18% than at 33%.
And even if in the case of that issue with modules, it still is wrong to say “the peak is 33%”. The peak is 25%. It’s not about being technical, it’s about not saying ■■■■■■■■.
Except I didn’t say the peak was 33%
I said the peak was ABOUT 33%
unless you are flying in a battleship many mods will take you from 25% to 15% or below particularly if several cycle at once.
It is just a number that a lot of pilots use because it is close to the real peak, gives you cousin, and is a third witch is easy for the human brain to visualize.
And I corrected as it’s not “about 33%” but exactly 25%.
25% is a quarter, even easier for the human brain to visualize.
and that is where your correction was wrong.
because while it is exactly 25%, 25% is also about 33% so to say that it is NOT about 33% is wrong
No, being exactly at 25% is not also being around 33%. The correct value would be “around 25%”.
Especially since after that you falsely claim
While you still have more cap rep at 19% than you have at 33%.
You give WRONG number, and then you claim “I was right”. No you were not. It’s completely childish to claim “but I still am right”. Nope, you are completely wrong.
no in a fight once you hit 24 next thing you know your cap is going to be gone. if you fell under 25% you were not making enough to keep stable and now you are making even less and you have under a quarter of cushion left. You are over here arguing semantics while we are trying to help him in practical situations.
Even if this is true, the peak is still exactly at 25%.
I know many people believe that the peak is at 30%, or 35%, which is just.
completely.
wrong.
and that’s because you keep claiming this BS.
So yes, even in a fight the peak is at 25%.
If you get heavy neuted in a frigate you are dryed out, and STILL the peak is at 25%.
It’s not about practical, it’s about not saying BS.
Now depending on your cap stability, the possibility of neuts, you may want to have a more or less important buffer, and thus in some cases it may make sense to rather remain around 33% cap - if you can drop down to 18% by using your cap modules. But the peak is STILL at 25%.
Claiming the peak is around 33% is bullsh¡t.
but… 25% is around 33%
Yes, and 100% is around 0%. What a stupid statement…
no but 93% is around 100%
Are you done getting random rules from nowhere just to justify you being wrong ?