We know that there are titans and dreads from four major empires right? They should be EQUALLY balanced. But (talking as a nullsec alliance member) the Caldari Titan/Dreads(or only the Titan) had lost their point of existence. First, the damage delay caused by missiles (and kinetic single-target doomsday) is not acceptable for a 10%tidi conflict(even any tidied battle, since there are more and more tidi over New Eden). The missiles would reach targets after 10 years if you want to press your F1 on anything. Also, if your side wants to DD alpha a titan/cap on the other side, it would be painful for the pilots flying their levis since kinetic doomsday takes more time than other DDs to reach targets, 4 seconds in a 2000v2000 battle mean a year.
So I have come up with a solution to this. Why can’t we let Levi&Phoneix (or at least the Levi) have the ability to WARP their XL missiles? (not for rapid torpedos on Phoneix) I think it is totally logical based on New Eden’s background, and the actual needs. I mean, probes launched from a frigate which costs like 300k ISK can have the ability to warp to any point of the system (small fighters can warp also), why can’t we implement this technology to missiles launched from giant Titans that costs 40-60bil ISK?
In my thought, the XL missiles would leave the launchers for their target, immediately after leaving they enter warp and drop out at 2000 meters to their target. This 2000 meter is where normal missile skills take part in, which still takes explosion speed and radius into account. These warpable missiles would have slightly less damage, explosion radius, and speed compared to their brothers. This is to put a difference between two Ammos(warp/not warp) and to let both of them have a reason for the pilot to use them (to explain it in ‘background story’ is that the warping missiles sacrifice their warhead load, tracking computer and thrusters in order to be able to warp). And finally, with this feature we have the reason(or explanation) to buff the kinetic doomsday–since on the description it is formed by a swarm of missiles.
This feature can be added through a skill like “Missile Warp Operation” (increase missile warp speed etc…). Here I have some thoughts over the equipment going to be used if this feature is accepted:
A mid/low active module (T1/T2) called Missile Warp Computer(which only allowed on Titan/Dreads or just Titan). It acts like a siege module like these on dreads but has no punishments. By activating this module, XL torpedos and cruise missiles would have a “Warp Range” and “Final Range” instead of their normal range, and the “Final Range” would be much smaller than the original flight time. Also, this can be fitted with scripts either to buff the range or the speed of the missiles. This way, I think, is the most practicable way to implement this feature, but an additional mid-slot usage can be dangerous to Shield Titans/Caps
A new type of XL missile which can warp. This differs from normal missiles but they would follow the same characteristics of their brothers. For example, Javelin would have higher warp speed and longer warp range, as well as Final Range than Rage Missiles. This way enables the pilots to choose which one(warp/fly) they want.
A new type of XL launchers(T1/T2/Faction) which can give the loaded missiles a warp ability.
By writing this, I realize that if Phoneix has this feature it might become too OP since it can enjoy firing XL Cruises with warp ability from more than 200kms from the target(while staying cheap). That is the reason I want to use modules for the solution since we can block the Phoneix from fitting them to the ship (Phoneix and Levi use the same launchers, so their ammo would be the same…), but adding a mid-slot module can be dangerous to a shield Titan, and the XL warp launchers would provide less flexibility if the pilot suddenly founds out that he needs more damage and tracking (also this can eliminate the normal XL launchers!).
Feel free to discuss my idea here bois. I am not a native English speaker, which means it might be hard for u guys to understand some of my phrases (sorrrrrry for that ). Let’s Make Levi Great Again!
Missiles have always been slow: this is one of the ways that their significant advantages over turrets are compensated for. They have to have some disadvantages, otherwise they’d be 100% straight-up overpowered and superior compared to turrets. Why should cap missiles get special treatment?
Besides: after the initial delay in the first missile hitting the target, there is no additional delay between subsequent missile launches except possibly when switching targets (though you could preemptively switch targets to prevent wasted volleys if this is a concern).
What are these significant advantages? For caps tracking is everything, and missiles don’t have any… They’re slow, and don’t do more DPS than a Blaster, and for dreads range isn’t that much of a deal (not that I know about cap warfare, just speculating). OP’s idea makes perfect sense, and while it may require balancing (like making all missiles warp except some special ones), it is a great idea.
Please reference my recent post on missile precision mechanics, which are parallel to turret precision mechanics. If you examine the sigs and speeds of Titans vs the explosion radii and explosion velocities of XL missiles, you’ll find you’re doing just fine (even moreso with precision enhancements) or if the caps are painted/webbed (if they’re using AB/MWDs). Even against Dreads it’s not terrible if you enhance precision a bit.
Against intended targets (like caps) and/or heavily webbed/painted targets and/or with missile precision enhancements, XL missiles do devastating damage relative to the fact that they have longer range and never miss compared to turrets. Also, neither the Phoenix nor the Leviathan have a damage type lock (DPS drop w/ L5 skills on Levi going from Kinetic to non-Kinetic is only 6.66%), whereas turret ammo is damage locked (including T2 projectile). This is important because, mathematically speaking, the best damage type to use against a fixed resist profile is a pure damage type. (If you suspect the resist profile is changing due to scripted or reactive resists, you could change accordingly to shake things up.) Sure, Moros offers more raw damage, but that’s assuming the target is within its relatively short optimal and doesn’t have high traversal, whereas missiles have greater tolerance for enemy speed in any direction and have longer range (including XL Torps). Also: Blasters offer the worst damage profile in the game, so the raw damage is negated by the fact that K/T is so heavily resisted against. So much for insane firepower (vs EM/EX missiles).
Also: mathematically speaking, DPS loss from time-to-impact only happens from the first volley, and as the number of volleys increase against the same target, the less affected the DPS is from the initial time-to-impact. This negligible impact is more psychologically annoying that it is harmful in practice, so there is no need for warpable missiles. The notion is silly, it goes against lore, there is no justification for giving them special treatment over subcapital missiles, etc, etc.
They’re supposed to be, but per the above, it is not a problem mathematically speaking, only psychologically speaking. At worst a target could escape before the final volley hits, but this isn’t usually a big deal. It is so rare that the final missile volley could have been the killing blow. If that’s it would have been… that’s PVP for you.
Honestly this is just a really excessive and bizarre way to solve a relatively simple problem. If XL missiles are too slow, just ask for them to get a speed buff. I would strongly agree that the doomsdays should get balanced tho, I don’t think they should have differences other than damage type.
Sadly it is very true that capital missiles are kind of useless, but there just really aren’t good solutions. Missile velocity also helps with tracking and damage application so you can’t just increase it recklessly.
Archer en Tilavine, missiles being slow is much more than a psychological impact. The extra time allows for much easier EHE use and for logi to respond much quicker. Worth mentioning.
The “extra time” only applies to the first volley, which they might not be aware is coming (esp in a large scale battle) - The RoF of all subsequent volleys are analogous to RoF of turrets. So unless you want to rebalance RoF relative to turrets, there is no problem here.
Of course. But in large capital battles, it’s not uncommon for that first volley to be enough. It’s quite easy to max health -> 0 a dreadnought in 1 volley especially if they don’t activate their EHE in time and you have many titans/caps on field.
(also, it only applies on the first volley if the missile travel time is less than the cycle time of the launchers, often, you have 2 or 3 flights of missiles in space by the time the first lot hits, especially with rapids)
). Let’s Make Levi Great Again!