New Player and PvP Challenges

Communications Center General Discussion
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I’ve been playing EVE for about 2 months. I heard it was a fun PvP based game, and I’m an avid fan of the PvP. I looked forward to eventually being able to hop on and spend a couple hours playing, getting into some fights and just having a good time. But the lack of ANY new player PvP centric design to this game is frustrating beyond belief. These are my main issues with Eve PvP.

There is no place for a new player to go in EVE that is easily accessible that has players of a similar skill level to train or get used to the complexities of Eve PvP combat. The large play space, 3-D environment, maintaining ranges, managing modules, overheating, weapon or ammo selection, etc. There is a lot to learn to get the basic skills needed to have fun and participate in PvP.

In addition the amount of time looking for fights that you might be able to win as a new player completely eclipse’s the amount of actual PvP play or training you’re able to get. Maybe I just don’t know where to find the fights and I’m certainly limited by what I can fly, but I’ve logged over 30+ hours roaming null, and have only managed about 10 minutes worth of PvP content. I don’t mind losing fights. I mind the huge amount of time looking for a fight I know I’m probably going to lose anyways.

If you’re interested in retaining new players CCP you should make it a priority to find some way to get new players engaged and be able to practice some PvP. Having to spend all of your play time searching low/null, avoiding gate camps just to engage in a fight you really have little idea of what you’re doing in, isn’t fun. But it is a good way to turn off potentially interested players.

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I’ve been using the recently released Santa’s Reindeer filaments to some great success. They take you to a random “potentially active” nullsec system and you can almost always find a fight in one or two filaments.

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Nor should there be, EVE isn’t “Fair” nor are there “battlegrounds”. It’s an uphill battle where not everyone is going to succeed and to even have a chance of succeeding is going to take a lot of effort, training, learning, practice and planning.

You’re going to die a thousand deaths, but that is ok because every encounter is a learning moment. Just look at it as paying a small amount of isk (ship loss) for experience. Looking at your KB you did a total of 5 fights and you even won one. What makes you think that someone completely new should win more than 1 in 5 fights?

Don’t go into null for fights given your experience and capabilities, you won’t find many or you’ll just get blobbed. Go to FW low sec.

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You can pretty much ignore the 14 trolls you’re about to get in here saying “It’s a sandbox, you have to make your own content, it’s not fair, it’s not supposed to be fair, it’s easier now than it ever was, why when I started you had to die 10 times before they even told you how to undock!”.

These people are basically dumb enough to think “Hey, EVE’s design worked 10 years ago, therefore it still works great today, and the only problem is new players are too stupid to learn how the game works!”. They generally ignore the fact that 80% of the original, ‘old’ players have abandoned the game as well.

Yes, this is a sort-of ‘PvP sandbox’. You are exactly correct in your OP however, because this is a sandbox where you have to drive 2 hours to get to the beach, only to find the beach is closed due to pollution, and you get to drive 2 hours back.

CCP has made tools over time - Faction Warfare, various events, Resource Wars, Incursions/Invasions, even Triglavian stuff - that could have provided what you’ve identified as a need for the game. Accessible, reasonable PvP for players to engage in without needing to book a 3-hour session just to have a chance at finding some half decent PvP challenge.

Unfortunately, the crop of developers at CCP since about 2008 has no clue how to design a PvP game or even why their game actually works in some cases and fails in others. Almost everything new added in the past 8-10 years shows this clearly.

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There are plenty of t1 frigate/destroyer fights to be found in Faction Warfare (low sec), which are great for new players. You can join one of the four militias or find a low sec corp that does small fleet roams and excepts new players. Roaming null sec solo is deffo the wrong place to be, unless you have the proper experience to understand null tactics.

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phyco

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Join a corp. This game is PVP centric. It is also played best with friends.

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Never listen to those who tell you to ignore others …
… because only assholes, who want everyone to think alike, would do that.

They don’t want you to listen to what others have to say.
They only want you to listen to what they have to say.

There’s just a handful of assholes running around telling people to ignore others …
… and they’re some of the worst people running around here.

That’s not a coincidence.

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To me this isn’t about fair or unfair, it has more to do with game design. When you get a new player your main goal needs to be retention. This is mainly done through some sort of combination of positive, rewarding, fun or engaging game play highlighting the core dynamic of the game, which for Eve is PvP. Giving new players the chance to learn the core mechanics of PvP while giving them a little taste of what Eve is all about creates fun and engaging game play, where they can learn and come out with positive game play experiences. Currently, it feels like the game design punishes you for wanting to learn. It sets you out on long treks, mainly warping from point to point, looking for a fight you really don’t understand the core mechanics of much, trying to avoid gate camps and warp bubbles, to ultimately meet someone who’s probably more experienced, skilled, and better equipped than you.

New players that have positive game experiences with the core mechanics will be much more willing and enthusiastic to keep playing that game and engage in said mechanics then a player who’s entire experience has been boring and frustrating.

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I was looking into this and maybe you could answer a couple of questions that weren’t clear. If I sign up for faction warfare does it make me an enemy to the opposing faction, for example I’m Gallente, would I be killed if I went to Jita in Caldari space? Also does it allow players to attack opposing faction players outside of Faction Warfare areas?

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Yes, you can’t change that unless you change the fundamental part of the game, it being a sandbox, without that the game would be destroyed. And again, it’s up to you as a player to make that work. It’s not easy, it’s certainly not for everyone or even most.

It’s not easy, it’s not inviting, it’s not obvious. But it’s also an achievement if you DO start to get a feel for and given how it’s not easy AND, most people being lazy or dumb, you can be sure that once you do learn you stand a much better chance.

EVE is a meritocracy, you start at the bottom like a nobody. Embrace the effort it takes, enjoy the difficulty and you fcking up. It’s all part of the process.

First and foremost, LEARN before doing. I realize that different people learn in different ways but unless you have an idea or plan you’re not going to learn or advance much. Solo PVP takes massive amounts of effort, that is why so few people do it and stick to large alliances. To hide their laziness and shittiness in.

If you put in the effort to learn BEFORE committing you have an idea of what you were trying to do, how it all went and why it failed. If you just go in to stuff headfirst, like so many people will tell you, you learn very little other than “pvp hurts”.

The majority of players will give you bad info and bad advice because the majority of players are fcking terrible at the game. As said earlier, embrace the open sandbox bit. If you want PVP training wheels then join a FW corp or perhaps look for some of the open roams.

YOU have to put in that effort, YOU have to learn the game mechanics. That is YOUR responsibility, not the game’s.

If you want to chat or learn contact me in game.

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Yes, anyone IN the other faction can attack you without repercussion. But some person who is just Caldari could not.

Generally if you are in Gal you are going to send an alt to Jita.

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Yes, it would make you an enemy of the opposing faction and I believe it’s ally (Gal/Min vs Amarr/Cal). It also allows attacking outside the low sec FW systems, but high sec fights are pretty rare to my knowledge.

FW is a lot of fun and does not cost much to get started. I fly a lot of t1 frigates that cost under 10 mil full fit. In pvp, isk does not replace experience. So go cheap while you learn the FW mechanics and gain experience. T1 frigates and dessies will get you plenty of fights, but be prepared to die a lot as well.

I use an alt in Jita to buy my stuff and hire someone from Hauler’s Channel to deliver it to either a nearby high sec system or a low sec destination.

I am pretty sure you can google fits for t1 frigates used in FW, if you need some ideas.

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It’s true ccp kinda gutted new player pvp when they made wardecs stupidly expensive. A lot of us first learned how to hunt other players by hunting mission runners and miners in decs.

There is still faction warfare which i recommend. You can use novice and small sites to limit your exposure…to an extent. You also make decent money in faction warfare whilst you roam looking for fights.

Something else you should look at is joining a good group of players. Eve is a social game as well as a pvp game and other players will be able to teach you about the game far better than the game itself. They will open doors you just can’t on your own.

I’m in gal mil, if you join up and wanna roam send me a mail and we can sort something out. Or there are the Villore Accords. They are pretty active in gal mil.

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I’m gonna go ahead and agree with what many here have already said - Faction Warfare is probably your best bet. If you’re concerned about not being able to use the Jita shopping mall, don’t worry, the game is super alt-friendly. Hell, I almost want to say one of the biggest things to learn in this game is how/when to use alts :grinning:

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