EVE needs a place new players can try PVP easily

Something like FW with the PVP sites, but in hi sec, and only t1 ships of a single type, with no faction or t2 fits, are allowed to enter (i.e frigates or destroyers or cruisers etc).

Why not just use FW? It’s too far from trade hubs, and it’s full of veterans in faction ships and T2 fits. It doesn’t feel fair from the perspective of a new player. New players need to feel like they have a chance.

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New players need ships for free.

This is silly, and I’m a new player who’s training up an alt for FW. Too far? It’s a few jumps max. Scared of not getting a “fair fight”? So what, you’re going to lose anyway probably, part of the learning process.

Sounds to me like you’re making up excuses, scared of losing a fight… In a game.

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Fair? If you find yourself in a fair fight, someone screwed up.

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New players get free ships from the tutorial and career agents.

No, they do not. They need to learn that they need to fight to get their fair chance for a win. What you want fosters the wrong mindset which does not help either the new players nor EVE.

Sorry but I think you are lying. You do not sound like a new player. You sound like an old player posting on an alt. New players don’t know the landscape of eve well enough to say stuff like FW ‘is only a few jumps’ and new players don’t get upset at the thought of a ‘fair fight’ like you are.

FW is very difficult for a new player, there needs to be an easier introduction to it where the fights are fair while they are learning. It should also be next to trade hubs for the reason that new players do not want to fly for an hour and then die in 3 seconds in FW space.

Sorry but your critisisms are not convincing. All you did was convince me you are a bittervet.

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What do you learn from a fair fight that will help you when you enter the “unfair” open world?

Your arguments for more fairness are not convincing. You sound like a “new player” that simply lacks the insight into how EVE works and how to act in EVE. What you want is not what EVE or new players need.

You general lack of insights aside: We already have fair fights: Abyssal Arenas. Controlled environment, ship restrictions, no outside interference, simple rules.

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Do you talk to new players? I do a lot. New players do not start with the patience of an old player. You are assuming new players think like you, they don’t. They want to get stuck in, not flying around with no idea what fair fight they are even looking for, for many hours.

How are they supposed to learn this patience that is absolutely essential for success in EVE if they get indoctrinated with the wrong mindset and expectations from the start?

If they need “fair fights” to get stuck in EVE, they are trying to play the wrong game. In the open EVE, there are no fair fights. There are only fights that you can or cannot skew in your favor. Making people believe that fair fights exist in the open EVE sets the wrong expectations and creates all sorts of entitlement issues further down the road. Entitlement issues that, among other things, already led to Arenas and special rules for Arenas that are not present or enforced anywhere else in EVE.

When people learn anything, they start with easier tasks and then progress to harder tasks? There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting out learning to pvp in as fair of an environment as is possible, and then to develop as a pvper from there. There is absolutely no reason to be against this. I think you are just arguing for the sake of it.

Stupid attitude.

If you want to learn ship navigation and module behavior, you have NPCs to do that. What you want is a PVE-like environment (predictable, linear, win-or-lose) for PVP, which is inherently unpredictable, not linear and winning and losing is not set in stone depending on if you have better or worse ship equipment.

Everything is wrong with that. You do not develop a good PVP mindset in people if you train them in a secluded, protected environment.

See this: Chremoas | Makaan Onzo | Killmail | zKillboard

This guy was in a subjectively superior ship compared to the meager T1 destroyer. He lost because he underestimated the newbie, the newbie ship and overestimated his own capabilities. Examples like this show how wrong you are.

As said above, what you want is already in the game. Abyssal Arenas. Use them and stop demanding more ruination to of the open EVE.

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Maybe you should learn how EVE PvP works first before making such requests.

Because if you think “fair fights” has anything to do with it at all you have completely no idea what you are talking about.

There are always roaming fleets in FW new players can join immediately and assume a role. This isn’t a game about 1v1 arena fights.

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I’m well aware of how it works. I’ve played the game for 10 years.

Not at all. New player perception is important to new player retention. If a new player thinks that they can’t take part in pvp because they don’t have the skills or the ship, then they don’t stick around. That’s a fact. I’ve talked to many new players who hold those beliefs. It doesn’t matter what your idea of eve pvp is to a new player.

Doesn’t necessarily teach you anything about how to fly your own ship.

A new player doesn’t care about ‘the right mindset’ when they begin. They just want to have some fun. That is what will keep them playing. No new player is coming into the game thinking about any of the stuff you are saying.

Well done for finding an extreme example. It means nothing.

The idea won’t ruin eve. Stop being so dramatic about everything. The idea is nothing more than an attempt to try and get more new players into pvp.

And instilling the wrong mindset in them just so they can have “fun” is nothing that will help EVE.

I am not surprised.

No, it is not. It is an attempt at trying to get more people into something that you consider PVP but that has nothing to do with what PVP is about in EVE. If you want to learn PVP, join one of the educational groups like EVE Uni or some of the newbie null sec groups. They teach you how to PVP and even give you ships and lots of helpful advice. You are in one of these null sec newbie groups. If they don’t do that, maybe you should go somewhere else.

I am not surprised that they don’t. AS you clearly show, they have no idea about anything and that’s fine. But if someone with more experience tells them how to do things, how to do things better and how this and that helps them more in the long run than some secluded arena with fair fights, they should listen and learn and not run around like a screaming petulant brat. :slight_smile:

If they want to learn more about PVP after then they will change. It’s really not the big deal you think it is.

It’s about learning how to pilot your own ship, it’s not about learning the in’s and outs of PVP.

It is an INTRODUCTION.

Ironic since you’re the one that came in crying your eyes out.

Wouldnt it be more important to show new players that its possible to fill out important roles in this game even with low skillpoints so its not so important that they get everything fast fast fast because they could start with that roles anyway.

If you want to get those new players for a longer time you have to get them in corporations and not try to make them play this game like fortnite or wow. All those discussions of how to make it “easier” for newbs to get into the game only adjust on players who wouldnt stay for long anyway. You should concentrate on the other guys.

You learn how to pilot your ship in missions. How do you learn the “ins and outs” of PVP if you “PVP” in an environment that does not resemble the standard PVV environment? What you learn in your introduction is not how to PVP, it’s how to consume that activity like a mission. Not like a unpredictable engagement against a player. It is not an introduction, it is miseducation of new players and making them believe one thing that holds no water outside the controlled environment of your introduction arena.

An introduction that misleads people and teaches them wrong things is not an introduction, it is a scam. Best example for that is, as said above already, the special rules that CCP enacted for arenas to make sure everyone can have “fun”. They even punish violations with bans. Violations against rules that do not exist anywhere else in EVE or are being “broken” everywhere else in EVE. Yet you say “it’s not a big deal”. Educate yourself before you make yourself look like a fool. :slight_smile:

Not really. A very common complain for new players is that they feel very overwhelmed by everything. New players do not need to learn things like fleet roles when they are first playing the game. They just need to learn the basics of flying their ships and to have some fun. As they learn more about the game they will find out about fleet roles eventually just as a natural progression.