Nullifiers cannot be equipped on these new ships, only a few ships can equip those.
Warp core stabilizers can be equipped, but the targeting delay will be big on a ship that relies on sneaking in, decloaking and applying a breacher pod before the target can get away. Also all you need to counter those is one tackle with scram+point in the fleet and you’re stuck regardless of your WCS.
Burst jammers may be a nice option on these new ships for hit-and-run strategies like they’re used on bombing bomber fits, but is sacrificing a valuable mid slot that now isn’t used for more staying power. If your goal is to tag as many enemy ships while brawling you will want those slots to be used for your shield tank, not burst jammers.
I had been wondering about that as well, it turns out that defender missiles won’t work against these breacher pods, but I think it may be a nice addition to make defender missiles stronger if they could counter the breacher pods.
Hull damage only happens after shield and armor are gone, so I don’t see how this really needs changes yet. Maybe these new ships will finally make hull repair modules and drones useful.
EDENCOM ships and weapon systems were simply developed half-hearted and could really shine in countering logifleets if CCP would invest a little bit of effort into them and would balance their build costs so they would be in line with the trig ships.
I don’T see these as brawlers. This a misconception that CCP uses to justify these ships. They will be used against fleets in hit-and-runs to damage particularly important ships. Without tracking bonuses, they are useless as brawlers.
Was this said on the stream? That would make these pods fairly pointless as shield and armor can be easily repaired against this pod damage. Wouldn’t make sense that A and S need to be gone until Hull can be impacted.
Make it OP first, then you at least can tell what is an acceptable level of power. But if you can’t accept to make it OP, then it will always remain under powered.
That being said, this seems beyond OP.
That’s something you can’t do. Because the meta will adapt to the new mechanics, all the knowledge you acquired is invalid the moment you publish an update.
You need to acquire new data, and this requires to have a lot more usage than you can with balanced approach.
Yeah, I agree this could be toned down and still OP. AFAIK it’s plain borken.
No, you can’t. Extrapolation does not work for prediction. You need interpolation, meaning data at the extreme of the spectrum
Yes.
I would be too afraid to cut myself to dare undock.
Wait …
SCARAB is a tiny litle step for (EVE Vanguard) warclones to have some fun with ships …some day into the future ofc
How SCARAB is any different from smartbombs in regard to off-grid surprise attacks? Except for smartbombs respecting resistances ofc. And by logic you should theoretically be able to counter SCARAB breach pods with smartbombs. The SCARAB’s pod structure HP even exactly matches a smartbomb’s damage for S and M sizes - 60 HP and 120 HP respectivelly, by CCP Hint.
thank you for the link. The chatlogs are hilarious, basically everyone in chat thinks it’s completely broken OP, almost no one is amazed by all that stuff…
@topic
I sincerely have no idea how these two on the stream can even think that this stuff is even remotely balanced. This is powercreep at it’s finest and it will just frustrate a lot of players by losing their ships quickly with basically no chance of saving them, even if they were able to break tackle and warp away, even if they have sacrificed lots of slots for tank. This is utterly stupid.
Not even increasing buffer would help, because the more hp you have, the more damage you take. Holy ■■■■ is this stupid, I can’t find words. They want to change the meta for more brawling, but I can tell you already what will happen: People will be even MORE fight averse, kiting even MORE to make sure they aren’t get hit by this.
I mean, holy moly how can those two being excited about these damage numbers? They are laughing about extremely well tanked battleships going down like nothing… Sorry, but I am afraid this stuff will do harsh damage, not to ships, but to EVE as a game. We can only hope that it is nerfed into the ground and hopefully removed at some point.
Being excited about a completely new weapon system that has a high killing potential seems normal to me. Good even, considering their role is to sell us the new changes.
While I don’t know if the new weapon system is balanced in it’s presented form, I for sure believe such a system can be balanced even if it deals damage over time and ignores resistances. It’s just a matter of tweaking the damage number and cap until it’s fine.
While it seems to deal good damage now and has some incredible benefits (ignoring resistances) keep in mind that the weapon has the harshest drawback that no other weapon in the game had until now: limited to 1.
You cannot stack these weapons against a target. You cannot focus fire.
In a fleet setting this means you will at most have one or a couple of these ships which can only fight at short ranges. I doubt it’s going to impact fleet settings much at all, even if it does a lot of damage.
The only thing it may impact a lot is small gang or solo PvP. While the limited range of these weapons makes the ships vulnerable to kiting, their web resistance makes it hard to kite these ships.
Let’s see how it works out before we already ask CCP to remove these weapons.
There’s been suggestions to allow “Military” cargo to offset the damage of breacher pods. Or maybe hulls need to get a “military” bay where they can store troops.
Yes, this.
It’s even worse, as the more HP you have, the less effective logi RR is
Imagine if noobship could instagib any ship in the game.
So much excitment ! Noobship online, and then desert online.
So no, high killing potential is nothing to be excited about.
only limited to 1 fitted per ship, and to 1 per target.
if you can shoot one every 10 s (accord to stream), it means the cap is for 7.5 target so 7500 DPS or 7.5% of target total HP, whichever is lowest(will be % of hp most of the time except caps : a BS will take approx 500DPS) , that bypass the resistances. For the M sized one.
That means, shooting 7.5 BS will result in before resists 7500DPS (with 50% omni resist ; is higher most of the time)
considering a 25k ehp ferox, this means 250 penetrating DPS per target, so 500 DPS before resist, so for 7.5 targets 3750 DPS .
“limited to 1” means nothing.
Here is my suggestion : have constant damage, not based on ship HP. Give them an application radius like missiles, and don’t bypass resistances. You can add a capacitor reduction, so highest capacitor value will reduce the damage taken, like speed for missiles.
See, here we disagree, because this mechanic outright punishes people for skilling, for investing into fits or implants. Whole skillchains that did costs months over months to get into become totally worthless against this mechanic. Even WORSE, you hurting your own reppers and logis by skilling or using more advanced equipment because suddenly they need to REP MORE on you. And that its “only 1 per ship” doesn’t really help here, it’s still either 56% of the total hitpoints (0.75*75sec) or 75.000 damage (whatever is less) for ONE successful shot from a ship that can decloak right next to you, and in a brawl, that guy can do this to everyone of your fleetmates every 10 seconds.
You can even die if you have fought back and managed to break tackle, even if you WIN the engagement, you can still lose your ship. It will frustrate and infuriate the targets of this system and I can tell you that instead of more interesting fights it will just lead to people being even MORE averse to ever take any closerange engagement.
It’s a punishing and potentially heavily frustrating mechanic, that will 100% not achive it’s goal. The only guys who will profit are the guys who have a 100% winrate already: Hotdroppers that right now use 12 BlackOps to kill a Vexor, well, now they will just bring one of those BreacherPod ships with them in case their target is a bit tanky. For everyone else it will just be a menace.
Maybe you should watch that stream, showing how quickly these Rattlesnakes died, just from the breacher pod alone. This Battlecruiser could, when using it’s guns too, probably SOLO a well fitted faction BS. It’s ridiculous.
‘Limited to 1’ does mean something, it means you cannot stack these weapons.
Now if you’re going to say these weapons deal insane damage while giving ideal circumstances of the right amount of targets to hit, have you considered that a Thunderchild has 487 dps?
It deals 4870 dps against 10 targets. At 40km.
With as big difference that you can stack Thunderchilds unlike these new ships.
That’s what I mean with ‘limited to 1’, which is very restrictive in fleet environments. Thunderchilds on the other hand deal massive amounts of dps against many targets at much higher ranges.
Still I rarely see Thunderchilds used in PvP, even though they deal massive amounts of dps to fleets, because they’re not the most practical ships to use.
This means that not only the damage numbers are relevant, but also how the ships will function in context with other ships.
Thunderchilds aren’t cloaked, cannot be BlackOps bridged and most important: you can evade that damage by speed (it’s a L-sized missile-based damage calculation mechanic, so you can migitate a lot of it by just moving). And after a few shots you have just starbursted far enough that the Arc won’t hit many targets any more, making them pretty bad compared to other battleships.
The breacher pods are totally different. These ships shouldn’t be covert, they should deal a fixed amount based on target signature, respecting resistances and have a longer range but slower movement speed, so they work like single-target bomb that can be intercepted with Defender Missiles or Smartbombs. THEN we can begin balancing damage and time to make them an acceptable addition to the weapon arsenal.
OR
If you want them covert, make them a Stealth Bomber and a Recon - with the Stealth Bomber be flimsy as the others and the Recon low in DPS and tank compared to it’s combat counterparts (HACs, T3Cs). Breacher Pods being DoT-Bombs doing 5x the damage (omni) of a normal bomb over 60seconds, but to only one target. So you could do a different kind of bombruns on an enemy fleet, weakening them before you engage it and don’t have to care for a bomber-limit that would destroy your own bombs. You could use 20 if you want, but make sure everyone has his own target, else your shot would be wasted as they don’t stack.
I’m not entirely sure how I feel about the scalable (% HP) damage, but I guess we’ll see. One thing they could add is a reload of 60-seconds to the breacher pod launcher and limit it to an ammo capacity of 1-3 shots.
Recons give up firepower in order to have superior EWAR capabilities though. The specialism of these new ships is firepower, like stealth bombers, so it would make no sense for them to deal low damage.
I can see them be less tanky than regular destroyers / battlecruisers due to being covops ships, but let’s see.
Well, we can be pedantic, but like a Target Painter for example, the Breacher Pod just adds damage to the target. The Pod does it directly, the Painter by increasing whatever else shoots at it. But fair enough, then make it a BlackOps BS. Can jump, can cloak, but not warp cloaked, has lower DPS than the others, but the Breacher Pod as additional damaging mechanic, fine for me.
Important stays that the mechanic should not punish people for skilling or investing into their fits. Thus, resistances have to be respected and the damage should be flat, not percentage based. It can be modified by signature tho, so smaller ships are protected from being wiped out too fast and largre ones with more buffer (and sig) are hit harder. Like missiles or bombs already do. Adding a complete new (and badly designed) mechanic to ta game that already suffers from overcomplexity does achieve nothing good.
That’s got nothing to do. The thunderchild does not select its target, is affected by resists and target size. Can friendlyfire
ideal circumstances for the breacher is against caps, where they hit their max DPS. literally 7500 DPS through the resists. 15k DPS against selectable target vs 5k DPS non selectable of thunderchild.
I did not take the 800DPS from guns+drones into account, they are worthless here
The thing is, I gave practical numbers. You add one in your medium sized gang and that’s what you get.
Sure if you only shoot 2 BC targets with 25k HP each it’s only 0.01×2×25000 = 500 DPS through the resists so 1k DPS before resist, ignoring evasion. And lasting one minute, during which you are web resilient, have other guns to shoot, can warp off and still apply DPS . That’s still completely broken. and you add 800DPS when using guns and drones.
