Since when is the game not supposed to have zones? it has been very clearly broken up into HS-LS-NS since the earliest days of the game (I can’t remember if it was created during the beta, or shortly after it. but it hardly matters) and only slightly more recently wormholes and sov-null. Even the faction warfare mechanics have created a sort of “mini zone” within LS.
Each area of space has its own rules and mechanics, there are some things that are easier to do in some places, and damn near (or mechanically) impossible in others.
Wants to have a massive capital brawl in HS? not gonna happen. want to have it in WH space… ehhh… possible, maybe, but its going to take a ton of work… want to have one in LS, just jump a titan instead of bridge it and there you go.
Want to build capitals? HS is right out, LS is going to be dangerous but the margins are awesome, NPC null is allright, but sov-null is where you want to be.
on the flip side, want to gank freighters? probably best to park yourself in HS, you will get more content that way.
and so yes, it is perfectly valid to say “if you want to do this thing. you might want to go to this place, because its much easier to find the thing you are looking for there.”
In the specific case of the OP, his list of requirements is quite limiting, but when you boil it down, he wants solo pvp in small ships, without concord intervention or gate guns.
Sure, back in the day can flipping was one method for getting just that, but the game has changed, you can still duel, or hell even can-bait if you want too (I still see dueling and bait cans outside of trade hubs) but these days the best place to find exactly the kind of content OP is looking for is FW. lots of solo roaming, lots of small ships, lots of opportunities to catch people plexing, no concord, no sec status hit for killing war-targets, and no gate guns when engaging war-targets.
The zones i was refering to (my fault entirely), are zones restricting social interactions dependent on the environment. when you tell Mr. Mo to go to lowsec to do things he should be (and always has been) able to do in highsec, then you tell him to leave for a zone where there are people who share his interests. that’s counter to EVE’s jungle.
There are big differences. EVE specifically allows fignts everywhere. there are no PvP zones, where one should go to seek out likeminded people. the idea runs counter to the freedom of players being free to aggress everyone they want, everywhere they want. the idea of “going to x, for y” stems from other MMOs who aren’t sandboxes in the dimensions EVE is one, because they heavily restict the player’s freedom.
and to cover it:
using new players as argument reduces all the people of highsec to new players, which is unreasonable. using new players as argument puts every new player into the position of a victim by default, which also is an unreasonable thought. most players aren’t new, and scaremongering about the “new players quitting because of griefers” also is invalid, because history proves that it’s invalid.
it has been 5 years now since the crime watch changes. so to say that he “has always been able too” is far from accurate when it hasn’t been true for roughly 1/3rd of eves life at this point. the game has changed, and people have adapted. the types of people he claims he wants to fight, don’t generally hang out in HS anymore, they have moved.
and there is nothing stopping him from at least trying to continue playing the way he used too. hell every now and again he might even get a fight (there are still people jet-can mining, not many but they are out there. and you can still steal their ore, or try and bait people with cans. it just doesn’t work as well as it used too). but demanding that mechanics be changed to suit a playstyle that has been dead for 5 years now is rediculous. especially when the content he says he is looking for does still exist, its just moved.
and when you move through highsec and sense the emptiness, and still think it changed for the better, then i will just stop seeing you as a reasonable person. your post screams “knee-jerk reaction”, which does not meet the standards necessary to discuss the topic.
With “always”, i was refering to the time before the big nerf, which covers the vast majority of EVE’s lifetime and a time of continuous growth. my fault.
how generous of you.
your post looks like it’s assuming that people are victims by default, that he’s an evil griefer, and that he should rather move to a space where he will find likeminded people. you sidestep the very point of interest, which is an increase in social interactions in a specific kind of space. a space, which flourished under the mechanics he wants to have back.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Yes PCU has gone down since the crime watch change, but 2013 (a year after the changes) saw the highest PCU in eves history. and it wasn’t until 3 years later that PCU dropped below the all-time average. how many other changes occured during that time period that could have spurred the player drop off? or maybe its due to the fact that MMO’s as a genre are on the decline.
what evidence is there to point at this as being the change that has caused the reduction.
The other thing you don’t get is that, even though the fights may be similar, the interaction is wildly different.
Low sec is similar to a boxing ring, and fighting there is the social equivalent.
Picking fights in highsec is like picking fights st a bar, and the interactions are much more meaningful and sophisticated because you have to “pick” the fight.
The social interaction in low is shallow by comparison.
PCU isn’t that relevant. it only covers a short period of the day, and it’s restricted to a specific timezone. if the PCU goes down, but numbers in other timezones would go up, then you’d not even notice the increase, because you limit yourself to looking at the PCU.
this is true, but its the closest thing we have to an accurate metric for active players over time since the only other method (CSM voting stats) is only once per year.
no, it’s not. it’s an invalid metric for the health of the game, because it restricts the perspective to a few hours during the USAmerican timezone. Since Ascension, i’ve noticed an increase in players during my day, which is before and after downtime. 20k online, in the AUT timezone before downtime (or was it post? it’s night here and i’m past my sleeping schedule), is pretty big.
what proof can we provide, that would convince anyone? see also my above big post. looking at history and learning from it is essential, especially in times when people refuse to learn from it.
Very well said. Not only game mechanics but player responsibility!
And this is what is missing in this thread. People demand changes like reducing cargo hold size of mining barges or changing back crimewatch but no one tells how they will make it so people start fighting over stolen cargo instead of hiding and crying. Because without second part nothing good will ever come from these changes.
I’m still hoping that this discussion will lead to something good for us all. EvE needs more conflict drivers not less.
In reality the story is totally different. People do not agress suspects because of:
neutral logistics
neutral bumpers
suspect baiting
the fact that baiters are well organized and experienced and baited ones are mostly solo and badly experienced in pvp.
All of these factors lead to frustration where you attack that “suspect” with high chance to win and as result see that it is you who is going to get killed following by get ridiculed in local. Most of players do not even need to try it by them self: they see someone dieing under attack of many suspects and it’s game over for them. Next time they just ignore all “opportunities”.
As i said before: say thanks to all those baiters and mercs - they did nice job killing all will to resist in what was called “cattle” in this thread. Now you have what you worked hard for. Enjoy it!
ban all of these, and support those who attack for retention. severe punishment for anyone who harms society. getting the ego trippers out of the way makes room for gentlemen of low moral fiber.
I feel like you had a bad experience that turned you off.
Therapy may help.
I don’t think you are receiving what I think to be a rational argument, and you continue to respond with false generalizations and confusingly impossible requests for proof.
Perhaps we should agree to disagree.
I, personally, hope nobody ever attacks or interrupts you again in the game so that you may enjoy it properly. I’m sure that will be satisfying.
this is the fuel you are giving people, who will make sure you don’t get what you want. apparently i was wrong, and you too are an ego tripper not caring about society as a whole. that’s fine per se, but it seems that you’re unaware, that it puts you onto the same level as a carebear.
there’s no way moving forward like this, you know?
That wasn’t constructive, but It made my frustration with him not listening feel ever-so-much better.
Eve is dying of its own boredom and I don’t understand how people don’t see it. His counter-arguments are loaded with fallacies (generalizations mostly, some straw man) and demands for proofs that could never exist.
I’ve quit the game and I’m hoping eventually they will realize why it’s dying… and bring back the Eve that we couldn’t stop playing.
He sees it. What he also sees is potential for abuse, which leads to tear jerkers dominating the scene. when that happens, the assholes do enough harm to get nerfed. and THEN they complained about it! carebears from the other side. that’s why i’m for severe punishment for anyone who deliberately harms society as a whole, and it’s really easy to figure that one out. we’ve had plenty of examples in the past.
CCP setting standards for social responsibility, where everyone risks getting banned for misbehaviour, sounds like a good deal to me. it covers not just the “dark” side as a whole, but also the jerkwads who see themselves as good people. people telling noobs that lowsec is an instant deathtrap, powertripping carebear CEOs who abuse or neglect their new players, people who go on awoxing streaks through good new player corps, toxic carebears on the forums, who fill the whole forum-bingo-card with their ■■■■■■■■.
ban 'em all. good riddance!
and then you can prove yourself, by not being an ego tripping asshole when you canflip a new player. vOv
I’ve proved myself time and time again in the game.
It makes no difference, this is a change that won’t occur.
They dropped flipping mechanics, then spent half a dozen revisions trying to make can mining unnecessary… then gave miners more tank in case someone was still trying to bother them.
I’ve said my piece. I’m frustrated at yelling into the void. I need to just accept that this is whatis going to happen.
Social responsibility… hard to write into a EULA. I blame the CEO who won’t let his players play because of a wardec. He blames me for wardec isn’t him. Who is the problem?
Vagueness becomes confusion once you try to enforce it.