A brief history of Eve’s decline from the Eyes of a criminal

I love this game… but I just can no longer stay interested.

I was a highsec criminal. I played in the population centers. I stole, I destroyed, I taught, and I fought. Feel free to hate me, that’s the predominant view of people like me.

The wars have died. The fun has died. The interaction has died. We now login to interact with CCP code and not each other.

What happened to our dark and gritty space opera? It’s become safe, and boring, and stale.

I took a few minutes to try to see where it all happened to a game that I still consider the greatest MMO of all time.

Here is your timeline. Eve online record

Eve peaked in January of 2011 when The Incursions expansion opened the isk faucet for highsec.

The core of the game at that point was still agreed by most to be PvP. However, that isk faucet opened the ability of players to earn isk in highsec at rates never before seen. It was the ultimate pve… with returns that gorged players in isk until there was nothing left to buy…

The rest of 2011 was spent giving us the ability to walk in stations, design our characters, and spend real money for vanity items. This bit of work was met with a collective yawn by the war-enthusiastic hordes of Eve… and by some anger. CCP was ridiculed for producing the opposite of what the players wanted.

Here is an interview that the Mittani did during that timeframe: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/09/06/eves-csm-fight-back-and-some-thoughts/

To quote the Mittani at that time (as he hit the nail on the head): “ As Gianturco points out, the expansions should yield a spike in players, but Incarna did nothing. And what a surprise: the kind of people who are interested in Eve’s cold, brutal spaceship wars aren’t lured back by avatars or rooms or trinkets. They want space war. Better space war.”

I tend to agree with the Mitanni here. But we have been slowly disarming the game
every since.

I have been unable to find exact date that the noob career systems were declared protected rookie systems. Back in 2011, Akiainavas was the biggest killing system in Caldari space (often bigger kill numbers even than Tama). There were scores of pvp’ers living in Akiainavas… and the fighting never stopped. You could log in anytime and pick up fights right in the Akiai ststion undock. When I heard Akiai was a protected rookie system, I couldn’t believe it. It was like someone declared Tama a rookie system. I think it was late 2011… or early 2012. I’ve included a link to a discussion where the fighters of the day were trying to figure out what was allowed. It was all quite vague, but the petitions started rolling in. I was petitioned twice… My friends quit. I moved to Umokka… and started fading away.

Forum discussion about whether career systems were rookie systems

And just like that, Akiainavas became
Peaceful. All those noobs started in their peaceful noob systems. There was no fighting to be seen… and then went to Akiainavas to experience… more peaceful pve. It was almost like the PvP madhouse that I knew as Akiainavas never existed.

Then came Inferno, April of 2012. This increased the cost of the the wars i was waging from 2 mil, 4 mil, and 6 mil for the 3 allowed to 25 mil, 50 mil, and I’m not sure what the third one cost.

I declared war maybe 2 or 3 more times total. I joined up with people who did now and again… but I didn’t enjoy pve enough to work that hard for an off chance of someone undocking.

Most wardecs didn’t turn a big enough fight to spend that kind of isk.

Oh, and now there was a new ally mechanic. The big boys on the pipeline were looking for cheap fights because their costs went up too… so they were taking ally status against every small PvP Corp that declared war… good for them, because we would fight. But we weren’t rolling as heavy as they were. I was specialized in T1 frigates… they were pushing faction fit T3s in good numbers.

So really, I was spending 25 mil to fight marmites… which gets old after a while.

I never bothered fitting a ship to compete with that. I didn’t pve enough to afford it. I always found it distasteful, impersonal, and ininteractive to fight from a position of advantage.

But we could still flip cans and have scuffles… which was always but the rumors were that even that would go away.

In December of 2012, crimewatch came out With the Retribution patch. I protested on the forums, that my playstyle was gone. I protested that the new players would never learn to fight and that the PvP community would all pool their assets in giant wardec corps like the Orpahanage. But I was just another of the deplorable highsec pvp’ers complaining.

Can flipping and baiting could still be done, mind you. It just wasn’t worth the effort anymore. There weren’t any fighters left to fight. I was accustomed to Akiainavas where dozens of fighters lived… now I was in Umokka and there was literally only one guy looking for a fight… me.

And the game went into decline. After an initial surge in players, it’s been dumping players for 7 years (with a brief pickup when it went free to play).

The player base spiked with Retribution… for a couple months. But look at the chart. Every month, more people lose interest and leave.

Retribution kicked-off the 8 year decline. I told you can flipping was fun.

Retribution, and the effective end of interaction that it represented, punctuated the start of the decline.

It was all about interaction.

Your fancy new tutorials replaced interaction with people. Larger mining hulls and mining frigates and the elimination of can flipping eliminated the need to work together. And ultimately, we all stopped doing the drama that made it a space opera.

Well, “griefing” is gone. The noobs are safe. The chat channels are quiet, nobody is fighting, and the isk is pouring in like water.

But is it better? Or was the Mittani right? Do we really just want more and better space war.

For me, can fights in Akiainavas were the single most engaging game activity I’ve ever encountered. Highsec war was the second most engaging.

No other game has competed with these features… that Eve used to offer.

And so to the CSM, if there are any old giggly criminals left, maybe it’s time CCP tried the old play again. Let the griefers back into the capitals of violence. Let us canflip and have petty little wars and squabbles.

I don’t think CCP can keep going in the direction they’re headed… but what do I know.


I don’t think CCP understands why people actually play eve. Maybe they never understood it.

I’m fine with making rookie systems more secure. I can tolerate that. However looking at the MER, it is clear to everyone that the amount of incoming isk and assets is way too high. However, CCP keeps insisting that making the game more safe is what is going to bring players back to the game. With each additional safe feature, carebears promise to come back just after that next one.

While I don’t completely share the OPs sentiment on removing “griefing” from rookie systems, I do share that the amount of destruction has to be raised in all other aspects of the game, highsec non-rookie systems included.

CCP, what made and makes your game fun to play is asset destruction and how it interacts with a live economy. Asset destruction creates real demand, something that is not found in other games. This is why people are here. This simple concept of items actually leaving the game forever, creates feelings whenever something is lost or gained. These feelings are what creates stories. The stories that hits the main media and have players join just to be part of those.

Additionally, CCP just takes too long to overhaul/rebalance old systems. This might be because they themselves don’t know how to fix the systems. Or maybe they don’t know how to identify the problems. I mean, PvE in highsec is boring as hell, yet this is what new players are experiencing. Is it a shock that player retention is low? They themselves have admitted during last years EVE Vegas, that they are bad at analyzing data. If they then rely on the community for feedback, then they are just pulled in every direction by lobbyists. Then we get biased systems that does not really improve the game.

My faith in CCP as a company has definitely dropped these past years. Even simple feedback on chat issues and upholding deadlines they have set for themselves, seems to be a difficult. So how can one project confidence in CCP’s ability to fix a mess like eve?

I don’t say that I myself know how to fix eve. Eve is a complex game with many systems both old and new. I understand, that what I’m saying can just be interpreted as a bittervet just going “Grr CCP”. However, given the changes pushed to the live server the last years and how CCP have handled some of the games issues, has me worrying for the future.


so let me get this straight, you decided to ONLY participate in a single, rather narrow part of the game (that being high-sec pvp) to the near total exclusion of anything else, even to the point of handicapping yourself at the one thing you did due to your refusal to do even a tiny bit of pve (50m back in 2011-2012 was still pretty easy to get so shouldn’t have been breaking your corps wallet to keep declaring wars)
The game changed, your tiny slice of that game was no longer as viable, but rather than trying to adapt you just kept on trying to do the exact same thing in the exact same systems and that is somehow the games fault?

There are still plenty of people working together, plenty of fighting to be had, plenty of wars going on. they just aren’t happening where you are anymore, maybe its time to move to greener pastures instead of hanging out in the newbie systems.


and as subsequent economic reports show: Incursions have a minuscule effect on ISK generation. Flawed argument.

Funny that you mention that goon muppet here. He and his group of muppets is the biggest thing of all entities in EVE that prevents war and interesting content. They drown and suffocate everything with supers and titans until nothing wants to move. And they drown the market with minerals and their massive ISK influx. Nothing generates more ISK, minerals than Delve. And now they expand into Period Basis as well.
Structures and their use by huge, singular groups is what prevents wars. The GSM lobbied hard for these changes (structures and capital changes). They are the reason why EVE is declining.

On wars I agree: The cost scheme needs to be reversed: The bigger your group is, the cheaper it should be to declare war against you. Even if you are just one week old, if you managed to grab 200 characters, you are not new anymore or inexperienced, you are big enough to be hunted. Let alone the hugest null sec groups who enjoy massive protection from wars in high sec because it costs 500M per week to wage war against them.


The not.
Take a look elsewhere for hard core carebears.
Hint not high sec.

Stop please.

Beginning of an end.

Words of a person urging ppl not to report their bot farms at worst worth nothing at best is self interested agenda.

Tldr unable to gank 24/7 noobs in noobs systems didn’t kill the game.

It wasn’t flawed at all in that context. When Incursions came out, they were a massive ISK faucet, so much so that CCP had to nerf them hard to save the economy to much shrieking from the farmers. Shrieks very similar to what we got when CCP attempted to rein in the insane levels of ratting income now going on in nullsec last year. I’ll agree, the massive wealth faucets that were cranked open in nullsec in 2016 kinda makes worrying about easy Incursion income rather pointless now, but for many years a quarter-to-a-third of the ISK flowing into the game was going to the few hundred people turbo-farming incursions, while the thousands in nullsec had to share the rest.

Did easy, safe Incursion income contribute to the decline of the competitive game? We’ll never know for sure but I’m inclined to believe it did contribute. Group PvE isn’t a bad idea, even mostly safe group PvE, but when it out-competes the income one can expect to earn from taking and keeping space, it is bound to erode much of the competitive game.

Well, it seems Incursions, at least the Sansha ones are finally fading away, ironically being strangled by the twin assassins of even easier safe ISK in nullsec and even safer/accessible PvE in Abyssal sites. The farmers just moved from Incursions to other sources of easy, safe ISK.

And more generally to Mo’s point, the game has stagnated, no one can deny that now. No, it is not dead, and there are still things happening in places that weren’t sterilized as hard as highsec was, but all this safety and wealth has not produced the influx of players the care bears promised. It has however, made it to tedious to generate content, drama and player stories, especially in highsec, which offers a very poor introduction to the game.

Maybe Mo’ needs to just ‘adapt or die’ and look elsewhere to find that content or call it a day. But I think the reflections of those who experienced the decline have value. Identifying what experiences engaged players, and kept them playing, is useful for future development, at least it would be if CCP didn’t just keep banging its head against the wall and going with “make them richer!” or “make them safer!” for every development effort. Even their own studies point to the fact an interesting and action-filled highsec is a better retainer of new blood than a sterilized, empty space, yet they insist on making their PvP sandbox game have both less PvP, and less activity in highsec where they start their new players.

This war change was sold as temporary and I believe a real war revamp is coming soon. We’ll soon see if CCP has learned the lesson that making it harder for players to generate content just will reduce activity further, not increase it like they keep magically hoping for. If not, their only choice at this point then is to cut highsec loose and leave it to the safebears, and move the new players to lowsec or some new space more interesting and interactive if they want this game to grow again. Because just making highsec safer and richer as the core idea of this war revamp is not just going to fail, but has the potential to swing the economic pendulum back the other way and stifle what little content is still going on elsewhere.


I find it rich that Mittens is lobbying for more wars, when GSF and the Blue Donut are the main reason null sec and the game is the most stale it’s ever been. In my two years in null sec I’ve never seen a more boring play style and a bigger batch of whiny bears. Many times I was nearly trampled by the stampede of players trying to dock up whenever a neut would enter our pocket. It was pathetic.

I agree with OP, I too miss can flipping and the old high sec wars. I was one of the few solo hunters years ago. Corps and alliances would laugh about being dec’d by a one man corp. but after 2 or 3 days they weren’t laughing anymore. It was more like wtf? I am very interested to hopefully get an engaging new war dec system, fingers crossed!

However, I did move on to find other means of entertainment, mainly low sec pvp. I would suggest since he enjoys frigate and dessie pvp to try FW space. Some days fights are everywhere, other days not so great. Eve is a wide universe, don’t limit yourself to one aspect of the game.

Yes current situation is enabled by hundreds of pod pilots that were doing incursions…
Now that same couple of hundreds is racking in trillions of EASY isk in null and abyssal sites
Wow those hundreds of players are really destroying the game for rest of 400000 of us…well that’s just not fair.
Please lay off quafe snorting.

If you think high sec is a stagnation driver because you cant can flip anymore i have perfectly working Badger drednaught to sell you via station trade…in high sec.
Every AND all times CCP commented on isk generation in game before incursions/during inc’s hay days/and in current pukedisaster that is nullsec farming / minning there was one problem stated …wait for it…null sec bounty’s

not high sec
not incursions
not anything else.

You have a MASSIVE problem IN null sec.

I’m not sure where you get this. CCP had to nerf Incursion income hard early on as players figured out the content and how to min/max them and it was endangering the economy. As CCP Affinity said about the changes they made in that devblog:

We feel the iterations made to NPC grouping and triggers per spawn are enough to keep the isk at a sensible level.

I agree with you though, and if you read and processed what I said above Incursion ISK is the least of the problems with the game today. Way, way, way more ISK flows into the game in an easy, safe, and often AFKable way to the large nullsec groups, and while cranking open the mineral faucets at the same time has kept inflation in check, it has massively increased the wealth available to people, but unfortunately with very little impact on the destruction and activity numbers like some disingenuously promised and I think CCP was hoping for.

I think this is a dire economic issue that is a ticking time bomb which will eventually have profound, and perhaps even fatal effects on the game’s economy and activity, but isn’t biggest problem in what Mo’ was referring to. Sure, the massive increase of wealth contributed to the power creep making it harder for newer players to compete with veterans in the expensive new toys CCP kept adding to the game and making it easier for established to afford, but the major source of content loss was via the safety buffs: CrimeWatch 2.0, Wardec Inferno changes, removal of highsec AWOXing, adding safe spaces. All things that were suppose to make new players stay longer with the game, but instead ended up killing highsec activity, and contributing to the lifeless state highsec is in and boring them out of the game. New players a have never been further behind when they start, and established players never safer.

The game has ground to a near halt under this excess of wealth and safety that makes doing almost anything meaningless, and leaves no hope for new entrants to shake things up like has happened in the past. No, I don’t think just making highsec more dangerous or less lucrative is going to do much at this point, especially given how the problem has largely been moved to nullsec, but CCP needs to shake this game up big time, which will be unpopular for the entrenched groups/players, for interesting things to happen again.

The sad thing is, I see no evidence of the courage for that in the current lead developers, meaning we will probably just limp along, slowly sinking into the mud until something sparks a fail-cascade and they have no choice but to make radical change. But if that takes to long, there won’t be enough resources left and instead of a chance at a rebirth, they’ll just pull the plug.

Well, this is Mo’s thread on his account of the history of Eve, not one for me to speculate on the future, or even diagnose the current problems. I think history has proven he and his ilk right: a more dangerous and exciting highsec was better for the game than the watered-down, lifeless place the series of CCP’s well-meaning, but misguided changes to highsec PvP resulted in. Maybe some were a good idea in isolation, and some of the problems in highsec are not directly caused by CCP changes like say dealing with power creep, but in aggregate, too many concessions were made to safety and not enough time spent enabling content creation in highsec. This left a boring and lifeless highsec which makes a terrible place to introduce new players to your PvP sandbox game.


Before incursions null sec hold monopoly of good isk income you wanted awesome isk you needed to be in a Drake of old doing F1 monkeying.

Incursions in High sec offered Great lvls of income for group pve and were naturally nerfed to the point of CCP almost killing em link you posted is nerf rollbacks because ppl just went back to null sec.
Main nerf was not letting players killing a battleship on each wave to spawn next one.

Agreed just i prefer for CCP to deal with 800pound gorilla in the room first than look at high sec and go crazy with ganking noobs salt fest.

Thanks for the input guys.

I never knew the Mittani, but that quote hit the nail on the head for me.

Highsec warfare and shenanigans wasn’t a narrow band of the game back in 2010… in my opinion… that was the game.

I’ve lived in null, wormholes, low… etc… none ever replaced the absolute insane chaos of being a highsec criminal.

And if we join for fights… why do you suppose the noobs join? Stagnating their space first seems so deeply counterintuitive to me.

The profession-systems delivered Eve to noobs who would have quit when their 2-week-free-trial was over if they’d been left safe. Instead, they came to Akiai, or Arnon, or any of the other profession systems… and it was alive with activity, fights, and danger. People were arguing for in local, and fighting on station, and doing all kinds of stuff. It was fascinating to encounter for the first time.

The profession systems were the first system where noobs experienced interaction. That is the difference. It didn’t matter if they lost a ship or two. If someone else was the bad guy, I’d be the good guy. If I was the bad guy someone else would be god good guy. It was the interaction of it that made it the wonder that it was.

That interaction for noobs and the killers who Shepherded them ended in late 2011-early 2012 when we all started getting banned… exactly when the game stopped growing.

Back when the game was growing gangbusters, I was the tutorial. I taught them, I sponsored them, and sometimes I killed them. And my retention results were excellent.

You traded me and my merry band of giggly bastards for Aura… and she knows her stuff… but her milkshake does NOT bring all the noobs to the battlefield.

We were much more interactive and interesting… and we did a hell of s job of growing this business.

And no , I’ve never considered Akiainavas a rookie system. Nobody spawns there. It got a lot of traffic from the profession missions… and that’s probably what started it all.

By all the guys fighting outside station… they were mostly fighting people who were there to try pvp. Yeah, noobs got blapped. And yeah, noobs got picked up, dusted off, and reimbursed.

My point is to ask, why the hell did anyone, noobs included, want to get introduced to this safe boring highsec. 70% of the player base lives there. All the noobs live there.

If this place is boring it’ll just drive people away going “I don’t see what all the talk was about.”

So you couldn’t ruin people’s day in cheap, t1 ships anymore, because the other guys were dedicated and risked t3’s? Oh how sad. Carebears are told to get betters skills and fit better ships. Sounds like that’s exactly what you should be doing, instead.

You’re missing the picture. I actually have fought those guys many times.

I’ve also spent time in several of the major merc groups and just refused to fly that heavy.

A problem is that once everyone worked for a sugar daddy and wasn’t allowed to fly poors to keep it sporting… I found them less fun to fight (and so did everyone else, which is where the large scale avoidance came in).

“The” problem is that the organic grass roots fighters who used to live all over highsec causing small fights and small wars in small ships that lower level players like to fight didn’t enjoy fighting those guys, found them to be the only fight in highsec, and quit or joined them which created: the merc juggernaut.

If you didn’t notice, for nearly a decade the
Merc community hasn’t been able to get a decent fight and has to wardec thousands of players just to filter out the dumb ones for us on the pipeline… because they’re not fun to fight.

Reason: 1) the T3 has no functional drawbacks… just cost (which means nothing in today’s isk saturated Eve) and the loss of a few SP (which means nothing when you’re in a gang of 6 or 10 of them blapping the pipeline).
2) the people who should be enjoying the fight have nowhere to dabble in cheap PvP because fighting a fleet of faction fit T3s flown by experienced guys is the only PVP left. (Which I blame on the unreasonably high wardec costs and eroded wardec mechanics).

Here is a post from 5/2012 where I was asking on the forums if there was something that could be done to retain the highsec fighting community. Can flipping wasn’t even gone yet, at this point.
Save the griefers

But everyone was too busy bracing for the tidal wave of noobs that were supposed to arrive when the fighting stopped.

5/2012… and me saying that all my friends have already left… hmm. Kind of coincides with that graph that shows Eve starting decline… in Late 2011/early 2012.

Maybe we were the guys keeping highsec interesting? Maybe we were good for retention? Maybe we were fun?


Interesting posts, but I question your connections between your perceived causes and effects. Just because two events happen around the same time doesn’t always indicate a connection, otherwise one could make faulty links such as the rise of the popularity of dubstep corresponds to the decrease in the EVE playerbase. While some of your argument may hold some validity, I can think of other reasons for EVE’s decline.

A game is fun when those playing it gain enjoyment from doing that activity. A round of golf, for example, doesn’t have It’s enjoyment lessened if your friend is a better golfer than you and has a lower score. EVE went from a game where 2 people could fight (a la, R vs B) for small stakes and, win or lose, both sides could have fun to something less enjoyable to all players. Simple PvP evolved into more complex forms were an even or fair fight was too much effort for the aggresser; fun for all wasn’t the goal, but guaranteed victory for the instigator was most desired. Targeting the uninformed or less experienced tilted the victory chances even more toward the aggressors. When victory alone wasn’t enough, humiliation or the harvesting of tears became the goal and in entered the Bonus Room, trial by court, initiating convos to taunt and later publishing the conversations on third party sites. Multiboxing and the use of imput broadcasting became rampant with the new norm being if you couldn’t get friends to stack the odds in your favor, you created your own fleet through any means, legal or not. Whatever method needed to feel that a player was “winning” EVE became acceptable and bots slowly rose to become the jugarnaut of destruction it is today.

Bottom line is that there are many reasons EVE is having problems. Heck the latest event fiasco is a shining example of the decline in product being pushed out by CCP. However, I feel once people decided that winning at any cost wasn’t enough, but actively seeking out and encouraging active disenfranchisement of other players by unequal enjoyment of gameplay, then the game began It’s ongoing decline. I know I would stop playing golf with a group of people no matter how much I enjoy it if they would bend/break the rules and actively persue making me feel bad about playing at a lesser skill level than them on a reguler basis.

Bottomline is that we all can’t win a game, but we all can have fun playing a game when everyone wants all the people involved to be enjoying themselves. Too many people have decided in EVE that making other people NOT enjoy the game is more important than establishing a healthy community. Acting like a criminal in the game isn’t bad, acting like a douche to other players is. Too bad so many people still don’t get it.

Criminals come in all shapes and sizes.

We had bad ones and good ones. But being a douche makes life in that community hard.

Everyone remembers the hard lessons… but the point remains that when I was running Akiainavas… the game was growing. When I stopped the game started dying.

There are a myriad of possible factors… but I can tell you that Akiainavas was anything but boring back then, regardless of your profession. There was a dramatic show to watch playing out on the undock, on the gate, in the belts, and in local chat 24 hours a day.

Enjoyment and engagement aren’t exactly the same thing. Lower enjoyment with high engagement can still make you want to log in.

It couldn’t get much drier today. It is boring from one side to the other. I mean like textbook boring.

Don’t those results speak to something? The game was growing until we chased PvP out of the profession systems? That seems like a reasonable place for noobs to encounter PvP to me… after the graduate from their spawn systems.

Where do noobs encounter PvP now?

Here’s part of the problem. The gaming community has changed considerably in the time EVE has been around. Guys like me who were in our twenties when we started playing are in our 40s now, and even the teenagers who started playing now have kids and jobs.

The overall gaming community has also changed. EVE is still pretty unique in the level of scamming, griefing, ganking and the like that is allowed, even though it’s less than we had a while back. But I think overall that most gamers have become more averse to that kind of thing over time. It was fine when it was all fun and games, but the first couple SWATings changed the overall tenor of gaming and folks aren’t as willing to sit back and let anything happen.

This is the nature of all of the platforms that profess to be “open” and “free” - once they reach a certain size and maturity, they have to start ratcheting down on folks who are using the platform to do ‘bad things’. Facebook, Twitter - all of these used to be platforms where you could say anything, and now they’re heavily policed. Hell, even 4chan and reddit have seen nerfs to what you could get away with.

I don’t think rolling back the game to 2011 is going to suddenly see an influx of more players. Other than those of us with nostalgia for how things used to be, most folks wouldn’t want to go back to those days and give up all the progress that’s been made (and yes, there’s been plenty).

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Yeah, CCP IS still dropping the ball when it comes to encouraging new players into PvP. I had a concept:

  1. Right after the training mission where you lose your ship and pod, you are “intercepted” from entering your normal clone and sent a new system (call them Incubater Systems).

  2. You are told that this special “Beta clone” is going to be used to train you for PvP. You are given some ship and a small amount of funds to change the loadouts a bit (station is NPC stocked) and told that until you either earn 5 victories or 10 defeats, you cannot leave this system and return to your normal clone. Any ship or money spent or lost in here will replenish following your win or loss. You can decide that PvP is not for you; you simply go to a beacon and wait for someone to destroy you (since self destruction is prevented). We hope you take this chance to try PvP at no risk to you or your assets because PvP and the willingness to take risks and losses are important for enjoying the total EVE experience.

  3. At the end, have some type of small reward of either SP or asset. Otherwise, no money or assets gained in here will make it out of system.Return them back to their normal clone. No impact on KB or loss of assets.

  4. Establish some new type of Faction Warfare lite which encourages easy 1 vs 1 or such PvP readily accessible to newer players. Prevent gatecamps (on routes to and from FW systems) and grossly unequal fights in an attempt to foster a friendly environment for PvP growth.

Anyway, you get the idea…

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I absolutely want PvP to be part of the NPE. It needs to be in there.

I hate instances, but for NPE it’s necessary … CCP could use a toned-down Abyss proving ground as part of the NPE. You can only enter within your first 14 days and within rookie systems.

That’s the main way I’ve thought of to do it.