Note from retired criminal

I can’t agree more. Eve is dying of boredom. But it’s not the type of boredom that ccp thinks it is. Adding more pve won’t help. The stuff is just retreads - same content with a new shell. This all began with the crime watch changes and the softening of the game. It’s well past time that ccp did something to stop the bleeding.

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There are far fewer people everywhere. That also said alot of the people in highsec have seen all the tricks and after losing far to often simply don’t take bait wether it be bait or not

Noragen, the difference in the way we see it is this:

I think all the other (not just jerks like me) people are getting bored because there is no “numbnuttery” visible in the game anymore.

You don’t see fights on undock, fleets camping gates, or smacktalk in local because these things aren’t happening. It doesn’t feel like you are logging into a universe of chaos and strife… it feels like a casual day or going to work in your OSHA approved mining ship.

It feels a lot more boring… whether I’m fighting or not. I really don’t care what mechanics bring back the “numbnuttery”, but without it this game is a farming simulator.

I think that’s why numbers are dropping.

I loved the chaos. I’m trying to love the new Eve.

That’s a reasonable thought to think, and i share it.

It’s simple.

Less antagonists = less action = less public communication = less reason for people to talk = less mulitipliers creating, modifying or spreading content = less growth of the antagonist’s community.

though we might differ in terms of reasons, because i believe that - for various reasons outlined above already - you only have yourselves to blame. and the worst about this, is that you (general you) still seem blind to the reason why you have to blame yourselves.

let me tell you what i’ve learned in the almost two months since this forum went live.

after two months on the forums, i’m still waiting for people to wake up out of their apathy. i’ve learned that even reasonable people are resistant to change (lacking the ability to self reflect), when it comes to their behaviour. i’ve learned that Cam constantly tricks loads of people into posting into her alt’s threads and i’ve learned that most people either are too dumb, or too selfish, or too ignorant to care.

i’ve learned, that people are easily baited with the outlook of “providing education”, which is a funny way of rationalizing ones slavery to reactionary behaviour. i’ve learned that the term carebear is inaccurate, and that the term “totalitarian” covers carebears completely and that its definition explains everything about them, perfectly fitting, with tons of evidence on the forums.

i’ve learned that a lot of people blindly submit to authority, without seeing that they themselves could change things, if they just actually wanted. this includes the reasonables as well. i’ve learned that ego trippers should just get banhammered.

and i’ve learned that, no matter what, people refuse to self reflect, or can’t. they rather beg to authority, live every day the same way no matter how insane, and they definitely - and i include you here as well - do not actually want things to change, because they have no desire to put actual effort into it.

What a great age we live in, where everyone is allowed to express his opinion, everyone believes it’s worth being heard, and almost no one knows how to actually form a proper one. no one actually has to do anything, instead let’s all just complain and hope our respective big brother sorts it out for us.

This was a rant.
i apologize.
it’s growing frustrating.

have a good one. o7

I like your spirit, but it’s not apathy that drives me to think the mechanics need to change. I firmly believe the behavior of the players is shaped by the system, just as natural selection shapes a species.

I’m glad you agree that we need more antagonists and I think that is a good place to start cracking the “nut” of what is wrong with Eve. If we can agree that there is a scaracity of antagonists (who deliver emergent gameplay?) then we could have a solid discussion of why and how to fix it.

I honestly don’t care what mechanics change as long as the Eve we end-up with is rich in emergent gameplay… which I would argue is direly missing today.

I loved can flippings emergent qualities. Even war decs of today lack in those emergent qualities. I suspect I would enjoy any mechanics that created the conditions for a game rich in emergent gameplay.

I’m current an avid jet-can miner and I’m learning to play while watching movies. I can kind of see why people do this.

We agree on pretty much everything, but the execution. that’s where i differ from most people.

for most people it is easy to make posts, asking for change. chance of success is small, definitely not a given. i don’t reject the idea of making a post, to get an idea out there. no. i reject the idea of lining up with everyone else, being forced to have an idea that gains “popularity”, because the popular vote is just tyranny of the masses, and the masses - by bob - don’t know what’s good for them. tons of evidence out there, worth filling dozens of pages.

i reject the idea of submitting to a benevolent god, dictator, or game company, especially when said game company gives us the tools necessary for avoiding said submission entirely.

what is it, that you wish to discuss, when a working, lasting solution only waits to happen?

I thought you would be pleased knowing all those highsec carebears finally realised the game wasn’t for them and took your advice to go and play Meow Meow Star Acres.

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Is it possible that, rather than blame CCP for taking the teeth out of the game,
rather than posit that people requesting nerfs are killing the game,
and rather than dividing up the playerbase into hateful, cross purpose factions…

Is it /possible/… That perhaps open sandbox pvp does not appeal the the crowds you wished it did? Or that EvEs very own reputation as a cutthroat, pirate/spy/infiltrator/F1 simulator might work against it in that regards?

It’s become just god-awful pedantic trite in darkest days 2017 to tell people to ■■■■ off to “Hello Kitty Online”, and to proudly boast “Delete The Weak”, “Go Back To WoW”, “Haha, learning curve with bulldozer and corpses, lawl”… but what if all of those people did in fact ■■■■ off back to the other game?

What if no one wants to play the game that you all enjoy so much? That’s not a hit on any of you, the game was always meant to be niche and highly specialized. But niche and highly specialized run contrary to “How can we get more people into this?”

Especially after 10+ years of swaggering and sneering.


My style has always been more cheeky and giggling than sneering and such, but I see your point and I’ve seen plenty of impolite smack in my day.

My assertion, however, is just that I provided a necessary evil for the game and that I thought both CCP and the player base, in general, would benefit from introducing or reintroducing a mechanic that allowed me and my ilk to practice my trade (not mining, the other one.)

I think my absence is denegrating the current player experience and I’d like to do my part to help make them happy customers.

That is all.

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If only that were true.

The problem, as this thread proposes and I largely agree with, is that CCP has turned
highsec into Meow Meow Star Acres. The criminals retired and there is no space (AKA fun) for upcoming ones. There are literally at most a dozen or two highsec content creators left playing with any regularity leaving an empty and lifeless space which either completely bores new players out of the game, or they quickly move elsewhere where something is happening.

Highsec is now as close to a perfectly safe grinding space as you will ever see in a sandbox game yet where is the massive influx of players the carebears have been promising for over a decade? CCP nerfed and removed aspect after aspect of player interaction to in part to appease the Meow Meow Star Acre crowd, but more so as side-effects to changes needed in nullsec and to try to isolate new players from loss and all it did was choke almost all the life out of highsec.

Honestly, if you look at activity numbers, even if highsec activity has cratered, the rest of the game is doing much better. The PCU graph makes things look bad, but total jumps and kills are up over the last few years in nullsec and even lowsec. So therefore a dying highsec is only a problem in as much as it poorly showcases the game to new players.

I am still saddened by how much CCP has neglected and even removed crime and war mechanics in a failed and misguided attempt to appeal to new players. Too bad they didn’t do those studies sooner and realize that losing a ship wasn’t driving people away before they removed large parts of the game. Perhaps we would have got an expansion of criminal mechanics but now, given how niche all the nerfs have made this play style and the general lack of resources at CCP to develop Eve, that will probably never happen.



Welcome to club!

I am officially a carebear.

I have, however, realized that there will be a recovery period.

A kid quit our corp the other day and I heard some people expressing disappointment over voice chat. My response of “**** yeah, lets go gank him” was received as evidence that I’m not fully recovered yet by my corp.

In a discussion about recruiting, I also volunteered a “join or die” recruiting drive similar to one I ran in Akiainavas years ago. In this technique, you grief people until you can attack… then take them into structure, then ransom them to join your corp.
In today’s mechanics, we might have to use ganking? Not sure.

I can acknowledge that, while prolifically effective in recruiting there is a downside to be noted in the retention data.

I’m learning. Mining is doable when I’m not really doing it, like if I’m watching a movie. The profit isn’t great and it’s not actually much fun, but the time commitment is easy.

I’ll keep you guys updated as I learn more about this stuff. Pedro, you can come mine with me sometime (once I train my way into a retriever).


I’ve been playing on an alpha for a few weeks. Got me a Vexor, it’s pretty neat. I lasted just 2 weeks without awoxing someone. I couldn’t resist it. I’m ■■■■■■■ hopeless.

Test my tank be ■■■■■■. That’s like asking an alcoholic to just ‘hold my whiskey whilst I go for a quick piss’.

Anyway the CEO didn’t kick me because I told him the other guy shot first, and he joined after me. Meh. I have hate mail, a bounty and a CEO that is starting to find the idea of pvp appealing.

I’m still finding ways to have fun. Sometimes it’s about the little things.


You are something of a role model to me, Mort.

I’m ashamed of myself for mining. But I’m going to keep doing it.

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Lol, I can see it now…

Mo gets a ganker come in his belt.
Proceeds to point out the bad warpin point, incorrect range and poor application of dps. Gives tips and tells him to come and try again.
Then waits in belt until the guy learns to do it better…


Creabears help each other…


When I first came to EVE in aught eight, I was lured by stories of a MMO that allowed griefing, thievery, and general numbnuttery (as Mo puts it). I promptly joined a highsec indy corp and fell in love with this game. As I trained I wanted a Myrmydon, but couldn’t afford the hull. I decided to build one for myself and as the newly appointed manufacturing director of my corp I decided to mine the minerals (or at least the ones that spawned in our home system) for the hull. I couldn’t fly a proper mining ship so I jetcan mined in an osprey for over a month for that ship. Other than the sheer amount of boredom, the only part of that time that was memorable was getting can flipped.

Some guy came in and stole my ore, dumped it in a can and then cloaked off the can. My corp mates said to leave it, but I figured I could get it and no one was around. Lost my iteron mk 3 that day, but it was great! Even though at the time I was pissed (more at myself than the can flipper) it gave me someone to “hate” (not really but I though in my head someday I will explode your ship).

Anyway point being, this interaction eventually set me on a path of learning how to PVP instead of doing indy stuff. Now almost 10 years later, I am sad that new players won’t get to feel the rush of losing that ship and getting your hard work set back. That they won’t have that person to “hate” and want revenge upon. That they won’t learn the lessons that I learned as a silly noob.

I think that new players today are just like I was 10 years ago, its just they leave before they get any interaction with anyone to peak their interests.


Same for me. The more I fought villains, the more I realized they were the reason I loved the game.

Then, one day, I realized they were providing a good service and having more fun than anyone else.

So I went to the dark side…

I think their absence is what’s destroying the new player experience.

If it was my decision, I would create incentives for wars to be fought in the 4 training systems… as well as allowing traditional and new griefing/fight starting mechanics.

I want noobs to undock into a battlefield where they see experienced and noob players squaring off individually and as fleets every time they logon. I want the tutorial to teach them what they need to know in order use the rules to protect themselves… but when that itch of “I want to shoot something” hits… I want them to have lots of people to choose from as an adversary.

I want logging in, in a noob system, to be as dramatic as any sci-if story ever written… with the same local faces causing trouble and starting fights daily.

This is how we retain players.


This thread is good stuff. +1

Agree with much of what you say, and i joined for the same dark dangerous universe.


Anyone of y’all drop by Akianavas lately? I remember being a new bro back in the day and marveling at how violent it was. What an accomplishment I felt for actually getting away with even minor thievery or, in spite of my relative inexperience, finally scoring a kill there. Hell, on any given day, it outshone Tama (sorry PERUNGA) on the Lonetrek map and was always one of the most violent systems in EVE. Chat was lively with the back and forth banter of actual competition and emergent game play.

It’s a frickin’ Ghost town now. I dropped off a few items to put on the market, had some lunch while my alt sat in the station, not one word in almost an hour.

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