Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

Funny, mine doesn’t have any overheating problems… neither do my Nergal, Rodiva, Zarm, or Drek. You should get that checked out.

Clearly you don’t shoot enough with yours. :slight_smile:

as I recall, socks are one of the reasons the Federation must be destroyed. Or maybe it was somewhere else. Anyway, somewhere was to be condemned for immorality, because of how they wore socks. Or the order in which socks were applied to the body. Or something.


[Moved here]

Right. You ran away in an orderly manner. You still ran away. And the Feds still held Caldari Prime, uncontested, with your people doing nothing about anything they did there, for centuries.

Elements of it. Others, you left behind. As you, yourself have said:

When you left, you weren’t an interstellar power. Which means you developed a way of life—a culture—that differs from what came before. That means you left the old ways behind to develop the new ones. You can’t have it both ways: either your way of life right now is totally the same as it was before your people became an interstellar power, or you left that way of life behind.

No, it’s just what you’ve been raised to cling to so tightly that you can’t even acknowledge that you are saying something that demonstrates that it simply isn’t true.

Here, this is simple:

  1. The Caldari people had a specific way of life before the megacorporate exodus.
  2. The megacorporate Caldari have a different way of life now, because the way of life of an interstellar power differs somewhat from the way of life of a valley-bound settlement near the Kaalakiota peaks. Circumstances change, and it certainly has an effect on the people that go through them.

If (2) is true, then the megacorporate Caldari cannot have been unwilling to leave their way of life behind, simply because they did leave it behind.

Ah, so the Achurans, despite being Caldari citizens, are not real Caldari, and for an Achuran to act like a Caldari, or claim to be Caldari, would be undesirable? So, do you feel Diana Kim is some kind of traitor to her native Achuran culture?


Thank you.

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Is it intentional that it sounds like “I Scream Audit Office?”

While that is delightful pun, I am afraid it is not intentional; it does not even work that way in the original Standard Matari.

The old ways once stretched across the planet, it seems disingenuous to position those who stayed as the inheritors of those ways, based on their survival in a handful of settlements in the Kaalakiota peaks–not of course that Caldari culture is mine to speak for.

The point, rather, is that those who left still changed their ways, as even Ms. Tereven cites. Thus, they cannot have left the planet to avoid changing their ways. Just doesn’t work.

‘I splattered his brains on the wall to make sure he wouldn’t die.’

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It doesn’t seem to me like a very useful competition anyway. The Raata have stayed perhaps more true to the ways of their ancestors, but they live broadly at the sufferance of others who could quickly silence them if they had the stomach for such things (we Achura can maybe relate). The Caldari of the State have changed more. Seeking power, for whatever purpose, changes people. This isn’t news. But also, and largely as a result, they exercise more autonomy as a nation and culture.

Which is to be preferred is a judgment call. And it’s one that, respectfully, no outsider gets to make for us, Arrendis.

And it’s one I’m pointedly not making. In fact…

Which arises because this is all about the comparison with…



Gee, it looks like it’s the Caldari making the judgment call about a group’s decision on which parts of their heritage to cling to.

I’m simply saying that insisting ‘We left to keep our culture’, when a) the folks who stayed don’t seem to have lost it, and b) the folks who left have developed a new way of life, and thus, a new culture… isn’t true.

But thanks for lecturing me about the point I’m not making. And, in fact, one I’m telling an outsider she has no right to make about where it concerns members of my Tribe.


So … about this.

Ms. Tereven, innocently I think, misunderstands a little the way immigration works in Caldari culture. Those who wish to join are broadly welcomed-- if they truly join. (There’s often a lot of scrutiny and skepticism about this.) In order to do so, they must completely abandon their original cultures, becoming fully Caldari in all but blood. There are places where the Caldari have encouraged this, like the cities of Achura. Most who are Achura by blood are in fact cultural Caldari.

Outside of the Saisio system, this is rare in practice, hence probably Ms. Tereven’s slight misunderstanding.

Those (especially indigenous peoples) who reside within the State but do not join the Caldari are given the option to become clients to the State. Those who accept are extended a form of protected status but are expected to live apart from the Caldari. This is the situation for the rural Achura. Those who decline are treated like the Dissociated, having no legal rights within the State.

Ms. Kim is of mixed blood, but as I understand it State-raised, steeped in Caldari culture. As a proper Caldari citizen, her blood officially makes no difference one way or the other; she is, to all intents and purposes, Caldari. (Just, neither Deteis nor Civire and maybe a bit of a puzzle for corporate matchmakers unless she returns to Saisio.)

From conversations we’ve had in the past, as well as ones I’ve had with Pieter and others, I believe you’re right, and was kind of highlighting the trouble she was getting herself into with that.

Hee. I did notice; it’s part of why I spoke up. You’re a little merciless about helping people sometimes.

The culture isn’t a statue set in stone. It’s like alive organism, it grows, it develops. Those who left behind are like cut off body parts that stopped growing.
Caldari culture is what the modern State is, what we evolved into, what we adapted into.
Those who didn’t develop with us aren’t Caldari anymore. They’re just aborigens.

^ this, however unkindly, is pretty much the official line.

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Sure, and I completely agree with the first two sentences. But they, as well, illustrate the error in Ms. Tereven’s assertion.

That the State represents the centre of gravity of the Caldari people and their culture seems quite evident; when one considers the societal importance the Caldari of the State place upon conformity and accord as one people, even should you see it otherwise, one cannot reasonably expect that they consider anyone who does not so conform to be Caldari at all.

Well, it seems I may have misunderstood Ms. Tereven’s position anyway, so I’ll be butting out now.

I’m not saying they should. I’m just saying that simultaneously claiming that they left to preserve the way of life they had, but also embraced the new way of life that new circumstances demanded, is contradictory, and can’t both be true.