Well, I don’t want to speak for Mizhara, but… I never got the impression it rose to the level of ‘hate’. Hate takes investment. It takes commitment. To me, Miz just always seemed really disgusted at you, but never really cared about you enough to hate you.
As the persistent subject of her attention, I’ll have to beg to differ, Arrendis.
If it wasn’t hate, it was close enough. Definitely close enough to inspire hatred in turn.
Well, that’s just Miz’s special gift. I mean, she can inspire that just by hanging out in a bar, talking about her favorite color[1].
I do find myself curious, though, why you’d choose to redirect a conflict with Mizhara toward other people. Miz doesn’t speak for Else, or EM, and as far as I know, has never claimed to. Heck, she didn’t even claim to speak for U’K when she was in U’K. It’d be like me deciding to attack you because Cardinal-Prince Chakargle was mean to me once.
1. Which, for the record, is ‘■■■■ off, what the ■■■■ business of it is yours?’ IIRC.
Ever tried Mindclash?
“Even if participants couldn’t be ripped to pieces in the literal sense, the potential psycho-trauma caused by the constant barrage on the brain could easily reduce a stout man to a whimpering wreck in mere moments.”
Hate harder, let if flow through you!
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Miz wasn’t there anymore (and is difficult to affect anyway). Else had spent the campaign seeding a doomed rebellion, which I saw enough of the effects of to inspire a certain amount of anger, and she also spent the whole campaign spinning, spinning, spinning-- trying pretty actively to hurt people I cared about. She was like the anti-Daphiti, spreading chaos and carnage and doing all she could to make it worse.
She’d do.
(The fact that she was, in her own eyes, doing what was right, or at least necessary, didn’t make it any better. As part of the propaganda both during and after she appeared to be casting herself as a hero, along with the rest of EM, and I wanted to melt that statue she was building of herself into radioactive slag.)
(Still kind of do.)
You seriously saw that as casting herself and EM as heroes? It looked pretty obvious from where I was that her intention was a lot more along the lines of bowing to necessity and trying to support the decisions of those people on Thebeka who refused to go meekly back into the slaughterhouse line.
It was never about her. It was never about EM. It was about the people who were willing to die just for the chance to die free, on their own terms. Where you saw her building a statue of herself, I saw the very epitome of the idea ‘my wants are irrelevant, all that matters is the decision they made’.
Once again, I really think you need to re-assess your assumptions and your characterizations of people’s motives and actions. And maybe ask yourself why you so consistently get that wrong.
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Here we go again.
And I mostly just dislike you because of your incessant telling this to me.
To be quite blunt, I didn’t watch that all that much.
It is interesting though that you choose to take revenge on me for whatever it was she said to you. Mizhara del’Thul is a kinswoman, sure, and for a long time was the closest one I had in space, but as far as kinswomen go, she and her people are more like rivals to me than allies. There is that whole ‘me and my cousin against the outsider’ thing at play here, sure, but… the idea that you could pay back to “us” by annoying me enough that I lose my composure in front of the whole IGS would probably amuse her to no end, and encourage rather than deter further attacks from her.
That was not what I was complaining about, either.
Unless your sacred duty is to be an intolerable know-it-all, it would be beneficial for your explorations to ask more and assume less.
Yeah, sure, that’s why you give people guns, not why you set up a big ■■■■■■■ capsuleer party and toss a bunch of ■■■■■■■ crew and stations on the fire, too. ■■■■, like everyone’s not still dining out on that ■■■■■■■■.
■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■ ■ ■■■■ ■ ■■ ■■■■■■ ■■■■■■■■ ■ ■■■■ ■■■■■■■■. ■■, ■■■■■■ ■■■■ ■■■ ■■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■■■■■■ ■■■ ■■■ ■ ■■■■■ ■■■■ ■■■■■■■■ ■■■. ■■■, ■■■ ■■ ■■■ ■■■■■■■■—■■■■■ ■■■ ■■ ■■■■■—■■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■.
■. ■■■ ■■■■■■■■ ■■■ ■■■■■■■■ ■■■■ ■■■■■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■ ■ ■■■■■■■■. ■■■■■■■ ■■■■■■■ ■ ■■■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■■■ ■■■■■ ■■■ ■■■■■■■ ■■. ■■■■ ■■■■■ ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■ ■■■ ■ ■■ ■■■ ■■■■ ■■■■■■■■■ ■■ ■■, ■■ ■■■■, ■■■■ ■■■■■■, ■■■ ■■■■ ■■■ ■■■! ■■■■ ■■■, ■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■ ■■■■ ■■■ ■■■ ■■■. ■■ ■■■■■■■■ ■■■■■■ ■■■ ■■■■ ■■■■■ ■■ ■■■■ ■ ■■■ ■■■ ■■■, ■■■■■ ■■■ ■■■ ■ ■■■■■ ■■■. ■■ ■■ ■■, ■■ ■■■■, ■■■■ ■■■■■■, ■■■ ■■■■ ■■■ ■■■! ■■■■ ■■■, ■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■ ■■■■ ■■■. ■ ■■ ■■■■■ ■ ■■■■ ■ ■■ ■■. ■■■■ ■■ ■■■■■■ ■ ■■■■■■■■. ■■■■■■■ ■■■■■■■■? ■■■ ■■■■■ ■■■■■■.
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I like thinking of the ■■■■■■■ audio stream on that. Makes me feel warm inside.
■☐■ ■☐■ ■☐■☐ ■☐■☐ ■☐■ ☐■☐■ ☐■ ☐■ ☐■☐■.
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Hey, Tribal style, too. Nicely and regularly ■■■■■■■ separated.
You didn’t ask about her motives, Arrendis. You asked about mine. That’s how I saw it. To an extent, I still do.
I don’t buy her spin. I think she’ll say what she thinks is right for her cause-- to build support, maintain morale, etc. And that’s fine, in a way. But it does mean that I have reason to be suspicious of how she, or you, characterize your motives, Ms. Nobody is Trying to Win.
So I’ll continue maintaining my own models, thanks. She can take all the offense she likes, even if I’m trying to stay out of a mindset of “more offense = better.”
And what makes you think she feels any need to lie to do that?
The same reason every politician ■■■■■■■ lies.
Not sure she’s knowingly lying, even if I suspect she might be. It doesn’t matter that much anyway. The full truth is almost always too complicated to be convenient, and I know the use and deployment of a partial truth. It’s very easily used to deceive or conceal.
Else takes pride in her abilities as a diplomat. She also wrote a “how to” on instigating revolt. The full truth of both those things is pretty complicated at the best of times, but acknowledging that doesn’t serve her cause. Acknowledging places where I might have a point doesn’t serve her very well, either. If she’s true to herself, she’ll advance her version of reality while degrading mine-- because her cause is important to her.
It’s the right thing for her to do.
Except that doesn’t fit the pattern of your actions. You said you saw her as building a statue to herself. Self-aggrandizement doesn’t serve the end of ‘building support and maintaining morale’ for her cause. It’s directly counter-productive. People don’t flock to the banner of ‘Go help some other guy!!’ for the kind of cult-of-personality motives that self-aggrandizement provides them.
What I’m coming away with from all this is you directly contradicting yourself… more than once over the course of this discussion, like so many others… and Else not contradicting herself. And yet you insist the internally-consistent perspective that actually squares with observed behavior is the false one, and that your constantly-shifting rationales that contradict themselves multiple times on just one subject are somehow reliable.
And here we are back to the explaining me, I see.
You do ■■■■■■■ realize you’re only interrogating Shorty there, right? If it suited you, you could find whatever you ■■■■■■■ wanted doing that. That’s General ■■■■■■■■ 101.
Much as you and others often accuse me of never changing how I think, Arrendis, I do adjust and adapt. I don’t pretend to be consistent, and I reserve the right to adjust my thinking at various points. I also sometimes don’t speak clearly. I’m generally straightforwardly honest about what I’m thinking or feeling at the time, though.
The statue I mentioned is even in my own mind not so much a monument to Else’s ego (that might be kind of modest for a respected faction leader, really) as a rallying point, establishing EM as a source of leadership and inspiration for revolts and revolutions to come. Else literally wrote a “how-to” for others to follow the example.
That was my target. Maybe I should even have persisted, but that would have taken an extended period of … just kind of bathing myself in venom?
I don’t really want to be what that feels like it would turn me into.
If that’s an actual offer I’ll be sure to take you up on it.
Hm. It looks like you edited it out, though, after editing it in.
Offer withdrawn?