Tell that to Floseswin IV.
Then youād best learn patience, Samira. Five years to convert a stubborn person with a strong will and spiritual training is barely any time at all. Itād be a major credit to certain persons if they managed to convert me quickly, but Iām not quite so courteous as to surrender my faith that easily.
Okay.
Ahem.
āItās awful. But itās just you, so far.ā
There is so, so much room for this to get worse.
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Right. I think thatās more than I have the stomach for this morning. Enjoy your theorizing.
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Right, it could get worse. And it likely will.
Dealing with the Amarr politically doesnāt work, their distinct lack of respect for our people and sovereignty shoots that idea down. Hard to cut deals with someone who probably values their coffee table more then your life.
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Well, what are your criteria of efficency?
The most efficent case of a people being Reclaimed I can think of off the top of my head is the Khanid - and that was a non-violent case. Thousands of people Reclaimed in a timespan that could comparably described as āovernightā.
I think thatās hard to beat.
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It wasnāt exactly a non-violent case. Itās just that the Khanid were allies in the war rather than the targets of it.
But yes, things were a lot easier with them. How viable would that be with other nations, though? Weāve had limited success with the other empires. Thatās what Iām unsure about. Even in our own history, the Khanid were an exception.
So Aria Jenneth lies. Interesting. Troubling.
Okay, so, the majority of the Khanids were not targets of violence by the Amarr to get Reclaimed, right? They were not conqered, they were not enslaved. The conversion was not forced, right?
Also, if I remember my history classes correctly, the vast majority of the Khanid were in conflict with the Udorians, but not allies. In fact, the first encounters between Amarr and Khanid were violent. But then there was a change of quality in the interactions. The temporal scheme of things was ātalks > peaceful Reclaiming > Khanid joining the war on the Amarrian sideā.
As to whether it might be a successful strategy with other nations, the example of the Ni-Kunni might be an intersting example as well. The 51st Exploration Corps arrived in the Mishi system in 22103 AD and took a peaceful approach to initial contact. They first got in contact with the nomadic desert tribes, which proved willing and eager converts to the Amarr religion - leading to almost all of them being Reclaimed peacefully.
The city-states were not convinced as easily, but even there the 51st did only react with force after one city state massacred an Amarr landing crew. While there was some armed conflict involved, in the end there was remarkably little bloodshed and most of the Ni-Kunni were reclaimed rather more, than less peacefully.
In conclusion, I think that peaceful Reclaiming is possible, as has been historically shown. If it occured it has been remarkably efficient. Of course, the current situation is quite different from those historical ones. That said, I think an all-out violent Reclaiming would prove to be disastrous under the given circumstances: A forceful, violent Reclaiming depends or martial superiority, which is something we donāt possess in the current situation.
That said, me favouring a peaceful Reclaiming doesnāt mean that Iām a pacifist. That again doesnāt either mean - as some people indicated - that Iād agree with a policy that goes with a peaceful Reclaiming only if people are willing to convert. If people arenāt willing to convert, that is on them - patience will be key, there, for in the end truth will win out in honest conversation. And Iām very confident that - although ultimate truth lies only with God - this is all we need.
Yet, if the Empire is attacked, then it is righteous to show that it is not a toothless, barking dog, but that there is also considerable bite in this Empire.
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Agreed.
You know, even the Meatpuppet has openly said his people were Reclaimed at gunpoint. Violence being threatened and implied is still violence as a tool of the Reclaiming.
Mr. Nauplius, this isnāt news. Maybe youāve forgotten, but itās something Iāve always said. (Just, maybe not in a while.) Utterly unfailing honestyās something Mizhara aspired to. Maybe Samira, too. Never me.
Miz and I used to get in blazing arguments about it. For her it was a cardinal virtue, overriding basically all other concerns. For me, itās more of a policy thing: if you want to build something strong that holds up under scrutiny and the test of time, itās important to be honest. But I want to be honest with myself, too, and itās not always possible to be truthful in all things without harming someone badly.
Miz insisted it was never, ever necessary to lie, but I donāt believe that. The world is complex, and it doesnāt conform to how people think it should be. (It only even conforms to how they try to make it to a point.) So, yes, I keep my options open.
But, as a matter of policy, I donāt lie much.
Iām so confused but Iām trying to be social again with this and thinking that is a mistake.
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This is not the place to be social. Weāre all just a bunch of miserable sycophants.
Try āThe Summitā fluid router chat while in pod. It has better moments more often.
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Using this forum for announcements and to generally look for people to meet outside of it is a vastly improved user experience.
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Glad to see people are still meeting outside, beyond yelling insults through CONCORD tech.
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Youād be amazed how civil you can find people to be the more intimate the communications become. It certainly isnāt common on an on-the-record forum where all of capsuleer society can see.
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I find these views a bit pessimistic. I regularly enjoy conversations both here and on the Summit.
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And you are wholly entitled to that opinion, Lady Arsia, but I feel relatively confident in my own in this regard.
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This place is what we make of it, my lord.
Lately, itās been the scene of some pretty raw emotions, including mine. It doesnāt need to be forever a battlefield, though. Itās not like I think weāre all going to come together in some form of unity; given the issues and the stakes, thatās impossible. Only, thereās a lot of value in a longer-form discussion where complicated ideas can be readily communicated.
If we can even just resist the temptation to try to harm each other here, something interesting might grow.
I agree with this. Itās my main reason for frequenting these forums.
But I can say with certainty that the person I probably appear to be here is not the person I am.
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