[Official] CSM 17 Summit Recap and Upcoming Election Announcement

Council Of Stellar Management Jita Park
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o7 Capsuleers!

We are excited to share the meeting notes taken from the latest CSM 17 summit, which was hosted at CCP headquarters in Reykjavik, Iceland. This summit was a week-long affair, with CSM members given a day on Friday to have break-out discussions with developers and to share some of their insights with the entire company. As always, the content of the summit included a mix of CSM-requested topics and CCP-proposed sessions, designed to gather valuable feedback on current and future projects. The sessions were quite densely populated with nearly 30 sessions over all.

Changes

I’d like to go over a few changes to the CSM Summit process to provide the most clarity into how and why the summits take place.

Due to COVID and travel restrictions, this was our first in-person summit since CSM 14. While the CSM operated fine without the summit, these are always incredibly valuable moments for both the CSM and CCP, so we wanted to take the opportunity to make a few changes for optimization.

We chose the timing of this summit to coincide with the planning & scoping phase of our next expansion, EVE: Viridian. We decided to take this approach to address some historical complaints regarding the summit, whose dates were not always predicated on development and more oriented toward availability of the CSM. CSM 17 saw an institutional change whereby members were able to contribute to the summit remotely, allowing for more maneuverability. Choosing dates that coincided with development planning meant that the CSM could have the most impact, and their feedback be the most meaningful. While the CSM do not decide which topics CCP work on, they are a crucial tool in helping development teams make necessary decisions for their projects.

The meeting minutes have taken many forms over the years, from the CSM recording their own minutes with final approval by CCP, to direct transcription. Sometimes these documents became incredibly daunting, and we found that players were not consuming the minutes due to their size and style of transcription. During CSM 17’s summit, each meeting was recorded via Teams, and an executive summary was taken to cover the highlights and important details of each meeting. We then sanitized this to remove as few NDA details as possible, and handed them back to the CSM for final comment. We’d love your feedback on if this process afforded easier consumption of the minutes, while providing the same level of understanding of what occurred during the meetings.

The finalized minutes can be found HERE.

CSM 18

The season for CSM 18 is fast approaching, however this year again we will be making a few changes. The purpose of the CSM is to provide input for developers, and after moving back to an expansion release cycle we feel it is important that this existing CSM 17 term be given time to continue providing their feedback on pending topics they’ve discussed with teams at length. To that end, CSM 17 will end their term September 25, 2023, and voting for CSM 18 will begin this August. We believe this is enough time for the CSM to finish ongoing discussions, while facilitating a handover period for the incoming term.

This July we’ll be announcing the key dates for CSM 18 elections, including the campaign period. Similar to CSM 17, CSM 18 will be given the time to provide feedback on the next two expansions, so future elections will ideally be centered around the expansion cadence.

We encourage you to join the dedicated forum thread to discuss the content of the minutes, and to create separate threads for specific sessions if you’d like to provide further ideas or share your perspectives.

Thank you for your continued support, and we look forward to an exciting election season this summer!

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Where can we find the redacted version of CSM presentations which the last page says have been released to the community?

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@Brisc_Rubal where can we find these?

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Each of the presenters has released the stuff - I know Mark’s stuff is in his discord. I don’t know where the others have put theirs out. I would check with them in the Official CSM Discord.

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Will this still be the case for CSM 18?

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Where has storm delay been this whole year.
Thank god i never voted for him. Hes not posted 1 thing about anything this year. Just brisc mark and kenneth that seem active

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I expect so, although I do not like it when folks aren’t physically there. It was rough on Kaz doing everything remote at 2 AM his time.

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First thoughts on Day 1:

Page 2 — Meeting 1: Leadership Intro

Then CCP needs to ensure that all sides have rewards worth chasing. It was not very long ago that CCP undertook a multi-year event marketed entirely on ‘Pick a Side’, only to later admit that they did not actually think anyone would pick one of the two available sides, and so all of the rewards for the conflict were made with the ‘expected’ side in mind.

Make sure this lesson is not forgotten, CCP.

Page 4 — Meeting 2: CSM Program Evolution & Future Ideas

Items 12 & 13:

There is no such thing as a ‘block winner’ or ‘Block group’. Nobody is running specifically to prevent someone else from getting in, or because they wish to be construction material. The word you are looking for is ‘Bloc’. You run a game that actively markets itself on politics. Use the right terms for the things you literally hype to sell your game.

Page 6 — Meeting 3: Little Things and Quality of Life

Re: Logi on Killmails. @Brisc_Rubal, as you and others have reason to know, this is one that I’ve given long consideration to. There is a right way to do this, and a whole lot of ‘wrong way’. Anything that can be done as a ‘little thing’ will be the wrong way. A couple of things to keep in mind:

  • If all you do is show the logi that tried to rep someone who died, you are simply logging failure. It becomes, in effect, a record of ‘here’s the guys who weren’t good enough’.
  • If you use an expandable ‘who repped how much?’ then you create an impression of some people slacking off because they have low rep numbers on a specific target. But maybe they had reps going on someone else, or maybe their latency meant they were a cycle behind, or tidi was playing hell with their modules. And maybe the guys who have really great numbers are because they had a repper cycling on the FC / that particular booster (cuz it’s their alt) all through the fight.

Neither of these is a ‘don’t do logi on killmails’, mind you, just considerations that would need to be factored into whatever method is used, which very much keep it from being a ‘little thing’.

The real issue is that we still wouldn’t have parity. Killmails are a record of the DPS’s success. Logi on killmails (back to the first point there) is a record of remote repair failure.

Let’s see savemails. The game’s clearly tracking the damage you do while you’re doing it, right? Otherwise, it can’t then go back to say ‘bob died, here’s how much damage everyone did’. The combat log stores that info, and it stores remote repairs. Right now, when the ship blows up, a killmail’s generated. But that’s just a specific kind of session change (the ship blows up, so the game needs to reset you into a new pod session… or pod blows up, so you go someplace else).

So here’s the bare bones of my idea:

  1. At session change, all combat log info gets dumped to a non-TQ system. This takes KM generation off of TQ’s load, and maybe even helps with the ‘the killmail never generated’ in heavy TiDi. (At least, if KM generation hasn’t already been off-loaded, which it absolutely should have been.)
  2. If the session change is ‘ship blowed up’, then great, normal killmail generated.
  3. If the session change sees the ship survive, and it took PvP damage1 and received remote repair during the previous session, then a savemail is generated, showing who did how much damage, and who did how much reps.

Give us a record of Logi’s successes, not just our failures.

Page 7 — Meeting 4: Team Security

Oh, c’mon, guys… this one’s an easy lay-up, and you missed it! This should have read simply:

[REDACTED FOR SECURITY PURPOSES]

:stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, that’s first thoughts on Day 1. Gotta go do some stuff before I can actually read through Day 2: Day Harder!

1. We know the game can tell the difference, because if you didn’t take any PvP damage, but you blow up, no killmail.

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Short answer: yes.

As we get closer to election time there will be more information, but as business around the world adapted to a hybrid work dynamic it makes sense for the CSM to adapt as well. As Brisc pointed out, Kaz attended the meetings remotely and was able to have meaningful feedback during each session. We may evaluate this new policy change in the future, but at least for CSM 18 it will be the case.

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Attending remotely IS difficult in that the meetings cover some ground but so does the social times before and after meetings.

Reading a room is a lot tougher via a computer screen. But we all adapt and the CSM process has always been one of growth and change.

I look forward to seeing how this new style works. (Hopefully in person if I manage to get elected)

m

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Thats great

I am curious to see how this works out in case I get elected

Attending in person can also be difficult for some ppl

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CSM 17 Summit Commentary and Summary - YouTube video summary and a few side somments from me
m

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please update the community hub page thing whatever with the new minutes.

thx

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That page is ancient, and unlikely to be updated - there’s only one set of minutes in the last three years anyway, as we’ve only had one summit.

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