So the republic can call anybody slavers, without evidence, and get away with it? They can call anyone slavers without evidence, and people will believe it? That is libel of a sovereign independent political entity…
That’s an idea, we could sue the republic for libel and/or slander
You wish to lay charges in a Republic court after your activities in Skarkon? Good luck.
Our activities of fighting with edencom against the triglavians and then evacuating civilians out of skarkon, and then to better facilitate the evacuation of refugees, by talking the kybernaughts out of shooting refugee ships? Are these the actions you are referring to?
Will everyone not in Skarkon kindly stop trying to make claims of what goes on in Skarkon?
Most people in Skarkon cannot make heads or tails out of what’s been rightly called “the messiest diplomacy since Thebeka”.
Claims of absolutes will serve only to point more guns away from Svarog.
Thank you.
PS. No comment on Arnola.
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See, now that’s a reasonable response, seeking redress via civilized avenues for resolving grievances against a sovereign government. That train of thought might get positive results, as opposed to say… multiple assassination attempts against the legally-appointed governor.
It’s a pity the Bosena Accords’ leadership didn’t seek such redress in court. It might have forced the RSS to drop that designation. Instead, by responding with measures the RSS can pretty easily paint as terrorist violence, and then openly admitting to having done so, BosAcc basically cemented that designation in the eyes of the Tribal government and probably most of the few individuals who actually pay any attention to you.
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Maybe if the warclones weren’t committing crimes, then the FIO and others wouldn’t need dedicated anti-warclone crime units ?
I mean, like, if there aren’t jacked-up cyberpsychos committing crimes, you don’t actually need an anti-cyberpsycho police squad, right ?
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I learned after the fact that apparently, the republic gets to choose who can and can not sue them, so there really is no chance of winning. They can just say that we arent elligable to sue them
Are you in skarkon? Because I am currently in skarkon
I was not talking to you, obviously, and as you should know, I have been in Skarkon regularly for the past several weeks.
I am not going to disclose my current whereabouts and activities on a public GalNet post, though. 
I am definitely not in Arnola, which is the topic of this post.
Ok, sorry. I’m used to people being antagonistic
Sure. All sovereign powers get to make that determination within their own legal system. But that doesn’t mean the attempt shouldn’t be made. If nothing else, the pro forma action of submitting the case to the Republic’s court system demonstrates a willingness to work with the Republic and play by the rules. Just doing that would have weakened Efrit’s position, especially when compared to the action that was taken.
Politics, no matter what Galm says about such things, is all about perception. The image you present to the masses is the image that will most directly impact whether or not the Thukkers are willing to spend political capital in the Tribal Council. If you make a show of trying to work within the system, of acknowledging the Republic’s authority while still respecting Guest-right, you’ve got a reasonably strong case to make that you’re operating within the Tribe’s hospitality, even if there’s a conflict with the Seykal. They don’t speak for the entire Tribe, after all.
But as soon as you resort to violent aggression1, you’ve forfeited those claims of hospitality. At that point, the Thukker don’t even need to wash their hands of you, you did it yourselves. And that’s what happened here. Had Bosena taken no aggressive action, you’re in a better position to get the Thukker to yank Efrit’s chain, early on. And what happens w/Efrit in Skarkon is all about whether the Thukker feel he’s infringing on their authority, or he’s ridding them of guests who’ve become… troublesome.
After all, Shakor needs the Thukker. Make no mistake about that, without the Thukker, his ‘reliable’ votes are the Brutor and the Starkmanir. The Vhero and Krusual have their own agendas, and the Nefantar can’t afford to not go whichever way the wind is blowing. Bring Shakor down to two reliable votes, and ‘don’t let the Sebiestor run things’ isn’t so guaranteed to be a winner for him. Especially not when he’s cozying up to the Empress and seeing Amarr splinter groups like the Blood Raiders attack Matar.
So he’s not going to piss off the Thukkers, which gives them immense political power to do things like bringing Efrit to heel. But they had to want to. They’d have needed a reason to spend that political capital, and ‘Efrit was mean’ doesn’t cut it.
It especially doesn’t cut it once you’re tossing around assassination attempts. You want your hosts to insist that their hospitality has to be respected by the Khumatar? Giving them the idea that if someone says something you don’t like, maybe you’ll try murdering that leader isn’t the way to do it. It’s a really good way to get them thinking ‘will they try murdering me next?’ And that just leads them to ‘ok, we’ll just stay out of it. Let Efrit and the RSS take the public heat if there is any, and we get those lunatics out of our hair without violating hospitality ourselves’.
Which, by the looks of things, is pretty much how things went down. So, yeah: even if you think it’s utterly doomed to failure, going through the motions of the legal and civil system is always better, politically.
1. Because while shooting back is perfectly reasonable, it’s still… rude, under most forms of hospitality and guest privileges… not as rude as the Seykal shooting guests of the Tribe, of course, but still, poor form from a guest. Poor form or not, it’s understandable, though. It’s when you go on offense that things become unrecoverable. Which you did.
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With regards to Skarkon, I say this not to “win points” or as a “gotcha” but only because it is conversationally appropriate to mention. @Attn_Thaddeus_Reynolds has taken substantial strides in working on behalf of The Blackshield and the Round Table to negotiate some semblance of deescalation. I’m not at liberty to discuss the details at this time, but suffice to say we are adjusting our strategy in the near future. Eliminating Kril Efrit is no longer a strategic objective and bares very little value other than as a symbolic and personal measure, and I have no interest in doing so. Other objectives on Skarkon are of much higher interest, and often run completely counter to pressing the Tribal Resistance Army. Simply no reason to keep doing it, any chance at achieving “justice” on Skarkon vanished when the sun went black. We have much more pragmatic goals to focus on now, like our ongoing proving against Svarog. Yes, yes, in before the inevitable comments about how we are not entitled to any sort of trust simply because we are halting assassination attempts against a Khumatar. Trust me I’m already expecting those comments hence my initial caveat. I am nothing if not self aware.
Now, back to the matter at hand with Arnola, and the potential political purging of warclones there.
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Lucky for you all, most of Skarkon is busy enough to work from “do their guns point at us on this very day?” rather than long-term considerations of where they might point if they happen to live on the next.
Now this thread can go back to Arnola, which is not in my circle of interest.
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I am coming out of my isolation to say this. We are not allied with Galm or his people. I only did what was right in supporting a group of people who were abandoned by majority of the others in the system when it went to hell. We were never allied. I would do it all again as well, its because of them that majority of Svarog’s troops are being distracted to allow Pro-Republic forces to continue the evacuations of anyone still left on planet. Do not try to guilt them because they were forced to find a way to survive. Should you have been in their place you most likely would have made a similar hard decision.
Now I return to my studies in isolation.
-Torvik Ironsides
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Were I in their place I would have made far more of an effort to work with the Republic government before Skarkon fell, and then handed over full control of all of my military assets to Khumatar afterwards.
As for formal alliance… your position is clearly different from the one they espoused, and when evaluating their stance, their position is the one in question.
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We had agreed to assist them in defending their structures from retaliatory attacks due to them choosing to survive in system and continue the fight planetside while most of the rest of edencom pulled out. Just a Rogue FC killing some EDENCOM aligned capsuleers who wanted to take them down before they pulled out of the system.
That being said this thread is about Arnola We can discuss how you feel about them in another area of the Summit.
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Edencom maybe, but not the Tribes.
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Now why do I feel like I know exactly who made this statement. Good to know you’re doing well out there if its you, Ragnar-Roach.
I’m still gathering statements from our officers trying to ascertain what happened out there in Arnola and what response to take. Statements made by the Ammatar Fleet seem to imply that Red Troop was deployed to carry out “counter-subversion” operations, which confirms some of my initial suspicions. Based on what I have seen (and keep in mind getting a sight-picture of what exactly happened down there is extremely difficult at the moment) we are dealing with a contingent of previously unaffiliated warclones sympathetic to either our cause or that of the Triglavian Collective.
It is unknown at this time how many sympathizers, as well as how many of our own troops were lost during the operation. Combat fatalities were expect, planned for even when facing Red Troop and extracting warclones out of the system. The capture of warclone troops, however, was my biggest fear but something that our volunteers knew the risks of before deploying. I hope that we were at least able to extract some of the sympathizing troops from the area that would have otherwise been purged without our aid.
I don’t hold out much particular hope for negotiation with SARO, we simply don’t have nearly enough political power for them to ever be swayed by our requests. Nor do I see a plausible avenue for freeing them from CONCORD’s grasp in hisec space without a clear target. I will however, flex whatever diplomatic muscle we have and speak with our people about organizing a prisoner exchange.
The Bosena Accords currently holds a number of detained High Profile Angel’s Cartel VIPs as well as several other prisoners that we are open to trading in exchange for our people. I will discuss with the round table as well to determine a path forward and to pull our troops back from the constellation.
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You could try talking to the local Mandate authorities. Thukker station or no, anyone trying to get to or from it is flying through Ammatar space, and you could seek legal recourse before weighing ‘who do we shoot at?’
Just, you know, try to avoid any assassination attempts on system governors. It won’t help your cause any.
As I understand it, warclone forces were captured and prosecuted by SARO Red Troop forces, not Mandate officials. Now that SARO has left and the Mandate has once again taken up ownership of orbital defense I have zero interest in conflict with the Ammatar, nor any particular reason to involve them in the dispute with SARO now that the prisoners have assumedly been moved off-world and are in DED Custody.
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