Personal war - a tool of interaction and drama

So, I was running a site this morning and a fellow jumped in, sniped the final boss in a faster ship, and grabbed the loot… after I cleared 3 rooms.

I’m fine with him being able to do that… but I had no mechanic to kill him without suiciding.

I want the ability to follow my grudge over his rude behavior.

I propose that since nearly every character in high sec is now immune to war that you give us the ability to have personal grudge wars… on a person.

I don’t need my Corp to war dec him. I don’t need to wardec his Corp.

But I want to

  1. threaten him for rude behavior… and I find empty threats unsavory.
  2. kill him repeatedly if he fails to make right the offense.

You can limit my ability to do this to as few people as you like… but it’s just not Eve anymore now that I have no ability to redress a grievance against another character.

You can do both of these. Just not with a war.
Personal wars would be so abused.


If that was a thing, then people would just wardec you personally so when you actually do get the loot they can just kill you :wink:

Use and abuse are different. Individual war decs would be inefficient to systematize… I don’t think it would be abused.

Would be too much effort for me to abuse, and I’m pretty well versed in high-sec abuse.

But I’d sure like to have a solid mechanic for making him regret his rude behavior.

People would just personally wardeck all highsec mission runners because they have blingy battleships? Wardeck a mission runner, use a tanky t3c and hold down the ship until like 10 catalysts come in and gank it

A grudge system sounds good.

You bribe Concord to look the other way. Say 10 million ISK for a week. Can only be active on a single player at any one time. And any player can only have a single grudge on them.

Grudge goes active in 24 hours. The player on the receiving end gets a warning as with wardecs (otherwise this will be heavily abused from Delve to Cobalt Edge).

A grudge can be revoked at any time and only renewed once before some cooldown occurs ( 30 days?).

All flagging mechanisms work the same regardless of a declared grudge.

Can this be abused? Probably.

Will this be abused? Almost certainly.

Is New Eden abusive? Definitely.

Just my two ISK.

So I can lock myself untouchable with an alt?
Also what defines a grudge…
It just can’t be done in a reasonable manner that isn’t open to abuse of the harassment/griefing variety.

We need abuse and grief. The mechanic can limit it, but boredom is a greater evil.

Just because it can be abused doesn’t negate its need.

This player sped pas time to snatch loot after I cleared three rooms because he knew I had no recourse.

I cannot war dec. I won’t have aggro. I could suicide him in my Gila… yay.

What happened to the dangerous and political game I used to play?

I can remember worrying that if I pissed someone off I’d be wardec.

What a great ISK sink.

Whatever you decide.

Why not?

Say you have an active grudge, you attack the player you have a grudge against. You get a criminal timer, but Concord does no respond. Anyone that assist you also gets a criminal timer as per the rules where concord does respond.

On the other side, the player attacked can respond without getting a suspect timer and so can his friends.

Yes, you could use this to target haulers, say to keep them locked in place until a catalyst group arrives, but would you haul a huge load with an active grudge on you?

No, no we really don’t need grief.
Ship explosions yes, but not grief.

Instantly every freighter has a grief against them by a CODE alt, they now can never haul because the correct alt will get logged on and a T1 frigate will kill a freighter no trouble if it isn’t subject to concord.

If you want to wardec code spotters or bumpers, good.

And yes, grief implies meaning. For the game to meaningful implies grief.

More meaningless ship explosions is of no value. The change this game needs is grudges from players injuring each other fighting about it.

Meaninglessly fighting with limited loss is meaningless.

I’ll admit that I hadn’t thought about Code. Those guys would almost certainly find a way to abuse this in some retarded manner.

For me, one of eve’s proud old griefers… I find this system difficult to systematize… which is what one would have to do in order to abuse it. If I can only declare war personally from me to another… I can’t leverage my wardecs to gain political power and actually running all of those wardecs is a lot of work.

I’m inclined to think this would be more effective in an anti-code function than in their favor.

I.e. - bump macharials and spotters could be permadecced off the field… or they would need some serious backup. At least the anti-code crowd would have a method of engaging players who use highsec safety mechanics in a grievous manner.

I think this mechanic would be abused somewhere, but let’s be cognizant that the absence of any form of injury in our actions is tantamount to them being inconsequential and meaningless.

We need grudges to give our PvP meaning. We need mechanics that allow us to create grudges and service them for both ill intent and retribution.

Considering EVE specifically bars griefing, and always has… Being proud of being a griefer is basically admitting you love breaking EVE’s rules…
And that your support of this is because you plan on using it to grief people and drive them out of the game, and gank to your hearts content with no consequence.

Suspect baiters were long called griefers… I was all about highsec PvP before it died.

I’m not one to break the Eula.

However, I’m making the point that I don’t think the mechanic would be easy to scale into an abusive scenario and I’ve got quite a bit of experience in the tactics and behaviors of that crowd.

If you can only have 1 against you at a time, you lock the slots out on yourself with pairs of alts, and then use them to gank.
If you can only have one outgoing, then it’s not very useful, and you still gank with alts.
If you can have lots incoming to prevent locking slots out, then you still gank with alts.
And if you can have lots outgoing you only need 1 alt.

Obviously it can’t block remote assistance for the target, meaning they can provide reps to anyone the anti gankers try and attack all they want.
There is no vulnerability of bumping ships, because bumping ships no longer exist because they just need to use a single ship to gank with now. And can gank you anywhere with said one ship, not just at a few easy gates.
The spotters A: Don’t care about vulnerability, and B: Can be utterly new alts anyway, so there is no vulnerability there either.

It’s a gankers paradise no matter what way you try and swing it.
And the fact that you call yourself a griefer says all that needs to be said on that side of the equation.

I think you’re uninformed.

I don’t see any reason to limit the number of these that can be applied because I don’t think abuse of it will be convenient enough to be worth the effort.

Bump ships are still used in freighter ganks as far as I know… I wasn’t talking about busting ventures…

Crimewatch will handle reps if they’re used. I actually think this whole mechanic would make anti-ganking effective… whereas they’ve been a joke since they were conceived.

Thanks for the character judgement. If I had a mechanic to wardec you over it, we could have a meaningful conflict now!

See how nice it would be!

Why yes, it would be so meaningful having you declare a personal war over something you yourself said!
In other words no it wouldn’t, it would be out and out griefing in an attempt to shut down opposing voices on the forums and control the voices CCP hears for game development.

As for being uninformed, I’ve presented a whole bunch of places this could be so easily abused.
You have presented no counters to these points, just bleated that “You don’t know what you are talking about”.
So which of us is uninformed here?


And I didn’t attack your character. You attacked mine.

I think if we fought we would get to know one another and we would share ideas. And you would get a little tougher and I would probably end up liking you.

That’s how interaction worked back when I was a “griefer”.

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Why yes… because I need to become tougher because I can… see how abusable a personal war mechanic is and how it is handing the keys of the kingdom to gankers.
Yeah, that’s not a sign I need to become tougher, that’s a sign that I actually have a brain.
I don’t need to get to know you, I don’t want to get to know you given the viewpoints… or lack of most of them, that you have presented here.