Players as Content and the Victim Mindset

[Dracvlad]

You never read what people say, I said belt ratting while people actively hunted me, you can’t belt rat in a station. I had a lot of fun blowing rats up in front of people trying to catch me. The trick I used was to set up BM’s all around the belts and control where I was positioned so people could not get warp ins on me. At the time I did this every ship has the same warp speed.

@Shipwreck_Jones

However, few would argue that the mere existence of “fight” mechanics makes the game unbalanced, or that it is evidence that victims are designed to be victims…One of those few, however, is Dracvlad.

I definitely did not say that, where did you work that out from? Are you doing a Destiny now? Say that someone said something they did not say and then insult them for it as if it is what they think, your attempt is lame.

The simple thing is that the game was designed as players being content, and I used the fact that rats kills on the map as an example of that being the design choice, which I find lame because it took out intelligent guess work and assessment out of the hunting equation. Making the game too easy for hunters and meaningless for people trying to use the vastness of Eve to hide their activity. It is an opinion on this being lame and downgraded hunting, not that it is unfair in anyway, that is all, and not what you turned it into. Unfair…, LOL, what a load of pap…

In terms of nerfs to gankers, there was no need for me to detail them because the gankers had detailed them so often and in painful detail and ignored every single buff to ganking so I just came along and detailed the buffs to give people a more balanced view of it. Of course you don’t like it but whatever…

Am I a victim, you will not find a gank loss on Dracvlad, and you will only find one on any of my characters, which was an AF in a belt when SP 'ing for my 2,500 SP.

@Gerard_Amatin

But Dracvlad, is it in any way exceptional that you think less of something that isn’t yourself?

That is a personal attack. And the two people who liked it were doing personal attacks, same for the third one too, so the four of you like going against forum rules.

@Shipwreck_Jones

One of the two idiots

This thread is idiotic…

@ResonanceOfWar

Drac, the forums are a hunting grounds too and right now you are taking that fresh juicy bait.

I was amused by this thread, it is just hot air, but you are right it is a bait thread so I will leave them to their pontificating…

[Commander_Shale]

I don’t disagree with the OP, but as far as your “sources” go CCP is a very different company than it was in 2007 and 2012, as is EVE a very different game. There was a time where buying ISK with real money had to be done through 3rd party sites and would get people banned. There was also a time where CCP said they wouldn’t sell skillpoints. Just because they said something a decade ago or more, doesn’t mean they won’t eventually go back on it.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Dracvlad

I said belt ratting while people actively hunted me

Or so you claim.

[Uriel_the_Flame]

They scoop up your corpse afterwards and do nasty things with it.

[ResonanceOfWar]

Oof there really is no come back to that, that doesn’t sound strange to say.

[Wadiest_Yong]

this is where we used to ask ccplease for glass cabinets in the captain’s quarters, to keep the corpses on display. OMG, what happened to us @@ since then

[ResonanceOfWar]

That is a bit much lol Dexter type thing.

[Wadiest_Yong]

My friend needs clothes... - Player Features and Ideas Discussion - EVE...

Chloe and @joelinux deserve a statue in New Eden, CCPlease !!

[Sharlamayne_Charante]

@Wadiest_Yong

this is where we used to ask ccplease for glass cabinets in the captain’s quarters, to keep the corpses on display. OMG, what happened to us @@ since then

And they answered that by removing Captains Quarters. A trend PACCP continues to follow at every opportunity.

[Wadiest_Yong]

[Shipwreck_Jones]

@Shipwreck_Jones

However, few would argue that the mere existence of “fight” mechanics makes the game unbalanced, or that it is evidence that victims are designed to be victims…One of those few, however, is Dracvlad.

@Dracvlad

I definitely did not say that, where did you work that out from? Are you doing a Destiny now? Say that someone said something they did not say and then insult them for it as if it is what they think, your attempt is lame.

@Dracvlad

I was disappointed with this mechanic because it made hunters less than hunters in the game design. Players are designed to be victims, nothing much else to say…

Are you trying to gaslight me, or did you really forget what you said a few hours earlier in this very thread?

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Dracvlad

how unoriginal…

Straight to the personal attacks.

Tut tut!

Dracvlad(s) just Dracvlad(s).

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Aiko_Danuja

Tut tut!

can i help you your majesty?

[Ramona_McCandless]

Wild animals that are hunters have unfair senses that let them smell their prey.

Human hunters have IR and GPS.

Im not sure where the measuring stick for it being harder than those concepts comes from.

[Kylanti_Hendar]

@Dracvlad

You on the other hand seem to need a mis-firing local, a delayed local or no local at all to hunt.

Nope, I PvP in abyssal space and low sec.

I like to PvE in wormhole space. I’m willing to accept the occasional ship loss in exchange for higher rewards and a more unpredictable game experience.

[Iceacid_Frostpacker]

@Dracvlad

You are going off on a wild tangent on what I said, the issue is that knowledge of active players was handed to hunters on a plate as content, nothing more than that. I found that very disappointing when I realised and thought less of the game because of it.

There is enough cpu and powergrid to fit a core launcher so miners should not have any complaints about gankers being handed some special unforeseen knowledge. The miners who lose Orca’s in Highsec want to lose it or they just would never undock their pretty isk printer.

[Kilmannan]

I’ll reply to this as I think it’s probably quite relevant to what’s just happened to me.

First joined in 2003 (different account). Trying to get a hang of the game, puttering around in a Badger MkII, and encountered my first PvP when I got insta-ganked coming out a gate with a full cargo. I didn’t enjoy the experience of not being able to respond, so left the game as it clearly wasn’t for me.

Created this account in 2011, played with a couple of people, but really struggled to wrap my head around everything. Spent my time PvE, then they left so I stopped playing as I couldn’t grasp everything that was going on.

Came back on today after a ten year gap, started gradually getting the hang of everything, and spent most of the day in 0.5 (I think? .4?) going after Gurista dens, yards, etc. I jumped in to an area where I’d been already, and got insta-ganked at the gate by a player.

I don’t mind it so much (and I knew the risk - that’s not the issue here), but I do mind the absolute lack of context around it and lack of effort on the other player’s part to actually have a stimulating gaming experience. They clicked a button, I died. No conversation, no engagement, when Eve offers so much opportunity for both.

Anyway, in both scenarios where I was killed, I was killed by people who just didn’t put any effort into ruining my day, and that’s not for me. I’ve played plenty of MMO’s where I’ve died and lost hours of work, but the actual loss was fun because of how it came about or how the other player presented themselves and engaged with me.

I honestly don’t have the skill to manage all of Eve’s complex systems and processes, I can manage to get somewhere, have a fight with some NPC’s and make it back out alive. I certainly don’t have the time to dedicate to becoming skilled at it or standing up against other players.

So I realise I’m content for other players, but the way the system is designed, and the way some players (as they always will, wherever you go) use those systems, plus just the absolute detached nature of being killed (I spawn in through the gate, get that wee stutter of lag as everything loads in, then an explosion), means I won’t be after today, because it just reminds me how Eve absolutely doesn’t work for me, when in theory it should.

Other than that, great game!

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Nana_Skalski

What when there are no players? There is no content? Then how this game even started? It didnt had any players initially, must have been something else that made them play it…

Hilmar and a few other devs were sent out mining, posing as players. Imagine that killmail. Wouldn’t you pay money ? That’s why EvE is so harsh, those traumatic first days of innocent devs being shot down repeatedly OMG what have we done Hehehehehehe.

On a slightly more historical note, what was the first killmail ???

[Io_Koval]

@Kilmannan

in both scenarios where I was killed, I was killed by people who just didn’t put any effort into ruining my day

Thanks for sharing your experience. This line stuck out to me, because I don’t know how you can conclude that from what you observed.

If you were in high sec, 0.5 or above, they had to manage a group of people and haul their expendable ships someplace, and use a scout to see what you’re hauling and where you are going, and then warp to the gate escaping facpo just in time to blow you up.

If you were in Lowsec, 0.4, doing Guristas stuff, then other people were hunting you actively, or you were close to Jita where players are known to camp gates (and there are websites that help with avoiding this). In that case, they put effort into planning their fits very carefully, getting people there, and actively avoiding getting their gate busted or baited.

In both cases, combat is a matter of using caution in planning to minimize risk during executing the combat. Not all PvP is like this, but if you’re avoiding PvP then it’s about the only combat style to put thought into – so you can be slippery prey. That’s a skill that carries over into other kinds of PvP as well.

If you do decide to stick around, without knowing more details, my advice is to go far, far away from Jita. Heck, leave Caldari empire space.

Also, you’re free to initiate chat with adversaries during combat. Not all folks in combat are looking for a conversation though.

[Vokan_Narkar]

@Kilmannan

I was killed by people who just didn’t put any effort into ruining my day

First of all, that you don’t see what they do doesn’t mean that killing you took them no effort. One won’t know unless he tries himself. Go try catch an kill someone the same way you were killed and then tell us how much effort you spent into it and what you managed to kill.

if you would do that, you would see that there is ton of effort they have to do, even if you eventually die at 1 shot. Which, if you really died to one shot, then you clearly fitted your ship incorrectly.

And if they had to spend 0 effort to kill you then you did many other things wrong.

For example, few days ago I jumped into lowsec with my Nereus. First of all, they needed 4 players to kill me, if they had 1 less I would be able to survive. Do you think that teaming up and gathering other players takes no effort? Second, they had to bump me as I was returning to the gate, if they didn’t I would survive and this is no easy task to do, it requires lot of effort. So I lost my ship, but they had to try hard. If he/they didn’t have to try hard to get you, you made mistake somewhere. Probably many of them.

@Kilmannan

They clicked a button, I died. No conversation, no engagement, when Eve offers so much opportunity for both.

And how do you imagine it. The mechanics around EVE are forcing them to kill you asap. Not just because of sentry towers damaging them as they stop you, but also because you could be trying to go back to gate and escape. They don’t have time to ask you for ransom AND from the experiences, all players like you refuse to pay ransom and will be toxic on top of it. So only very few players are doing it and from those, only very few will actually keep their word and don’t kill you anyway.

If you are imagining it like “Hey Kilmannan, can we kill you?” → “Sorry, but no. I am just minding my own bussiness and I don’t want to have anything to do with PvP.” → “Okay then, fly safe.” Then you are not right in the head. Try Hello Kitty Online if you think it should work like this.