High cost would not make war dec unusable by new corps. A high sec player can grind out 10M per hour. A ten player corp could grind out the cost of a war dec in week.
Yes I would join a good corp if it was immune to war dec. I started playing Eve for group play but then quickly leant that Eve does not promote group play. A social corp would be something for CCP to test. I won’t have my play slowed down by a war dec, drop corp, move on and continue my playing. Since I have been in playing Eve I personally have seen very little comprise in Eve.
I have to ask what the benefit to the defending corp that is not just being someone else content?
There needs to be something done in game that stops HUGE alliances from war dec new/smaller corps. The issue I have seen is that the small corps will not fight, can not fight, will not give in to strong arm robbery by HUGE corps/alliances. All this drives newer players from the game.
Fixed that for you. “Planned parenthood”'s one of those ■■■■■■■■ US ways of hiding reality behind harmless words. Not that I’m against it, hell no, the USA needs far more abortions.
Think About Germany and Poland in year 1939. Did you realy think that Poland had a Chance to win this war ? No they dont cause War is not fair and never will be fair.
the fact that you said that let me think your only reason is to cry About the actual game Mechanik and i didnt read anything after THIS Statement. IF you dont wanna get involved into a HS war then leave HS or your HS corp.
How does it make sense that it costs more to attack a structure than to build it? Why would you spend that billion ISK on a 7-day war that likely will result in no content given how easy it is to evade rather than use it to deploy your own structure or buy an expensive ISK-making ship?
With costs that high, no one would use them, other than perhaps the largest groups in the game with massive coffers.
Enough players grinding long enough can make any amount of ISK. It would be better to delete wars entirely than to make them so prohibitively expensive no one but the ultra-rich will use them.
You’re not wrong that corporations lack meaning and benefits over the NPC corp. There is very little mechanical reason to defend one or be in one, at least until your group gets so large you need some of the corporation alliance mechanisms to function. This, combined with the ease of hopping or dropping corp, has always been a fundamental problem for wars driving content and conflict.
However, I wouldn’t get too fixated on the carebear talking point of “not being someones content”. I think you’ll find that almost everything in this game will offer you up as someone else’s content at some point. It’s fine to play the game your way and if you want, and play it in a hyper-defensive and risk-averse way, but if you limit yourself to activities that don’t put you at risk to other players you are severely limiting what you can experience in Eve.
Practically, the largest wardec groups are the easiest to avoid as they are the ones that tend to blanket dec and never leave the trade hub/pipes. It is (was?) the small, focused groups and solo hunters that could shutdown corps with their tenacity.
Maybe the blanket deccers impact the game more because of the increased number of targets that may be scared out of the game, I don’t know, but I agree that either type of war can impact on a new group. The trick is finding some system that allows content to take place in highsec and the core game of Eve to take place. That means some corps are going to fail and be destroyed, but it seems to me a shame that the current war mechanics make the death of a corporation a permanent thing. You should be able to surrender or downgrade your corp to regain full CONCORD protection if you are completely outclassed and maintain the social bonds through a rebuilding period before you try again.
Ultimately though, long-term success in this competitive PvP game is only going to come from either increasing your military strength, or diplomacy and grouping up with others for mutual defence. It’s kinda how sandbox games like this work. Some people have no interest in this aspect of the game, and probably a permanent home in the NPC corp is the best for them, at least until they tire of shooting the same NPCs and want to take a shot at carving out a place for themselves in New Eden.
I read only 20 first messages and I don’t know if it was raised before my post (if it was, sorry for spam) but here is my coin to that topic:
How often do you see pirate groups declare war on 3-5 man corporations? I have started 3 corporations and built them up from 0 and only one group was wardeced by high sec pirates 2 times, first time due to our hs station they wanted to kill and second time due to payment to hunt us down. And those wars didn’t affect us because we joined growing null sec community/moved to npc nulls and didn’t give a damn about it. So if you are trully new player corporation you are not going to have problems imo, unless it is “new player corporation with t1 haulers for skill injectors”
I was in a mid-size null alliances and we formed up sometimes 8-10 guys to fight back hs pirates just for lulz and you know what? Most of them just dock up if they see pinata is going to kill them. I am not saying they all are like that, we had quite good amount of gfs and both sides had fun, but still, if you can not defend yourself you need to learn how to avoid it then.
Have you ever took a look on on-going wars of any big collective? Most of them are useless, because they use npc-corps JF pilots, or have some stupid rules like you need to pay the amount of stuff you did lose etc. So they have ~50 on-going wars with somewhere 10-15 really profitable. I might be wrong, but they pay a lot for it as well, unless they caught some poor dude with plex-tanked ship.
What I was going to say from the very begging, that I don’t think it is smart to change smthing you can not understand. “Let’s change wh space and give them local so we know who is there!” that is how I read that topic honestly.
War never supposed to be fair or we wouldn’t have them
It is nothing to do with me, I am merley sticking up for new players because sumone has to
both my pvp chars -5 sec status and below, my mission alt lives in a npc corp because of war decs because even my 1 man corp gets decked by griefers who just see u flying about
So dont pretend this is about me because it is not, it is about protecting new players
Haha if you wanna protect newbros then start teaching them and dont cry about the mechanic.
Pls stalk the beginning of my eve career and you will see that i have to learn the HS war lesson with a lot of deaths but now i would never die in HS war anymore if i dont try to engage them by myself
Emphasis mine. Not ALL new players are like you want to make ‘em look like! There’s plenty of those who just need to be gently pushed into the right direction! The reason why we ain’t seein’ more of these is because CCP ■■■■■■■ fails at delivering a way for newbros to grow into the environment and the players in their respective professions themselves, for lacking the foresight necessary to see that it’s ■■■■■■■ them who need to take care of the ■■■■■■■ newbros.
I think it’s stupid to have Wardecs allowed in any space that CONCORD is in. Even if you have a proper reason for a war.
CONCORD #1 - " Hey, should those people be killing each other over there?"
CONCORD #2 - “No, it’s alright, they payed for the proper paperwork to kill whoever they want, but make sure you get the guys over there shooting those freigthers, THEY didn’t pay the government”
How should groups fight over things in highsec then?
Say the Market Hub in your Fortizar is competing with the Market Hub in my Fortizar and you want to do something about it. What do you propose to be the proper procedure to go about legally attacking it?
In one of my suggestions( in the first page of this forum section) about the game I touch upon this, by suggesting CCP introduce an element of Cold War. One could also argue that there could be also a casus beli attached for a war…
But the thing is that what many people don’t talk about is that high sec is a proxy war of null sec. Even if you would make the war dec system more slow by throwing barriers at it, the alt system would take over, the pure mercenary route would take over.
The thing that must be understood for those who want to propose a new war dec system in EVE is what is the value of High/low sec. Only then we can have an honest talk about war dec in this game. This isn’t about a perpetual pvp game, nor is it about competition in high sec vs high sec corporations because those things don’t exist. All the war dec costs and resources committed to right now are enough to make you all wonder how those guys are making money in the first place…this enforced need of an Auction House type of a market is integral to understand behind high sec war dec system.
If you would like to make the case that CONCORD doesn’t make sense, then I agree with that.
CONCORD lets NPC pirates run rampant, is more powerful than all 4 other empires combined, has weapons and defenses that are not only without peer, but that are near limitless. They are less like police and more like avatars of the gods walking among mortals enforcing their arbitrary dogma.
CONCORD is, fundamentally, a limiter placed on aggression that exists in a certain area of space. It forces an aggressor to make a choice between losing their ship, or paying a fee and waiting a day for a 7 day window. In any other area of space, you can attack anyone at any time and only suffer the consequences the defender can impose on you, for the most part. High Security space does offer a high degree of security, like it says on the tin, but it is not totally secure.
The game lore or NPC names are only there to give this mechanic some flavor and personality. This flavor is secondary, though, and some degree of dissonance will naturally result when trying to describe what is essentially game design fiat (which changes now and then) with a long established history (which would be immutable).
They will also be so vehemently against putting risk back into war that the only way the game will ever improve is when they finally lack ability to do anything due to lack of targets. They’ll then want to be allowed to war dec the newb corps first.
If there’s no risk in war then it’s only because the target of the war is too weak to fight back, and deserves to lose their corp. If you want to change this then get your guns and start fighting back, don’t whine about how CCP doesn’t add more safety.
This is a two way street @Merin_Ryskin. If war is declared on you and they are too weak to fight back then they deserve to lose their corp. But that is not how Eve works for attackers.
Of course it works that way for the attackers. What is stopping the target corp from making the war mutual and turning the would-be attacker into a pile of failure and lossmails, other than the target being too weak to win a fight? What special protection does an attacker get?
If you “mutual” the war dec now they can inflict the losses on your war dec cost by surrendering theirs and leaving it open. If they don’t ever undock unless their neutral alt scouts say it’s safe to do so they never really attack.
Eve Promotes this gameplay for attackers more than defenders. However when it’s the defenders using the same rules then as you said before:
if you wanna protect newbros then start teaching them and dont cry about the mechanic.