So apart from being disorganised (as mentioned in another post) I have been making a bit of a profit (could always do with more but got to start somewhere). but this lends itself to another question… pricing.
Ill admit I have been playing the 0.01 isk game, generally only once a day to bump my orders to the top, but I am sick of doing that but want to price the stuff i put on market in a way I can leave it but it will eventually get sold somewhere along its 3 month window of opportunity.
I was thinking of putting it up at the regional average, however i see some items that have stupid prices in sell andsometimes buy which must skew that average price, is there any easy way of finding out the average regional price but eliminating those extreme prices.
For example
150mm Railgun II
Current Sell 811,976
Current Buy 680,351
Average 796,844
however there is a buy order for 55m (5 units) and plenty buy orders over 1.1m. Likewise there is a sell order for 200k (469 units). I assume these effect that average.
If not this method could someone offer any suggestions please?
You can’t "fire and forget " orders even in regional markets . They will be undercut sometime. What I do is take a share of my production ,let’s say 20-30% and spread in local markets, and the rest I haul to jita or any trade hub y like. While I’m there, I take about 30min to check my productions required materials , and in that time I babysit my orders. When on the way back I land on local markets and update the orders there. Y can do this without being all day in station 0.01 isking if you create a pattern.
Surely though there must be ups and downs in the market place, so something for 800m may down down to 600m over a month but then rise to say 900m 6 weeks down the line. Jus tthe ebs and flows of the market, If I look at a graph it seems to do a similar thing. I know how much my production costs me so I wont go below that, but with the number of characters and potential order slots I can use it would be nuts to 0.01 isk things.
I am not bothered that they will be undercut, I just want to reach a happy medium where i can be as sure as i can that the price I set at will come around again.
Sorry Noob here, What is that market 0.01 thinkg, I salvage my kills and when I try to sell the lowest available items is ( for exemple ) 200,000ISK and when I sell I get 1$ for cause it got purchases a bunch of times at 0.01$ ??? what is that?
use the median price.
Instead of using total value over three months / total quantity over three months
you take the daily sales data (you can fetch it from ESI).
sort them by value increasing
count the number of sale items in those three months tqs (Total Quantity Sold)
take the price of the tqs/2 th price in the increasing price list
example
yesterday there was 10 items sold at 10
before 20 items sold at 8
before 15 items sold at 12
sorting the prices creates the list of couples (20@8),(10@10),(15@12)
tqs = 20+10+15= 45
tqs/2 = 22.5=>22 (rounded down)
first 20 are 8, so the 22th price is 10
=> median is 10
median removes all the extreme values.
if you want to be more safe you can use eg 40th percentile instead of the 50th percentile( median = 50th percentile).
Personaly I use a safety value of 10 percentile points : items I BUY are using the 60th percentile price ( so the price I use is a bit more ) and and items I sell are using the 40th percentile (so I assume I sell them less than the median value).
You can use the close algorithm to evaluate the volume of sales per day.
take the list of sales per day (eg from the ESI) in the last month
sort it by number of sales increasing
pad with 0 so that you have exactly 30 values
take the 15th value
The median (or nth percentile - also called nth centile ) is a good way to have a correct approximation when the span of the values are too far from the average .
For this you need to define a bottom line under which you can’t go down. and sell at this price, or more if the market is worth much more.
example : I decide to sell my stuff with a 20% margin (over the taxes, the freight, the industry costs, the market, etc.) so the correct price for me to sell an infrastructure hub is 580M. right now it is on the market at 660M. So I sell mine at 620M eg, and tomorrow if they are undercut, I will sell at 600M, next day 590, next day 580 - and then no reason to move it ever again.
The quantity I produce and sell is limited by the median daily sale. So I produce and sell only 3 ihubs. it takes 2days to build them so it’s a 3* 600* 0.2 = 360M net benefit every 2 days just from the sale of this one item (they sell at ±600M usually.)
@Anderson_Geten - that seems like a reasonable way. is all of this doable from a data pull?
I have had a spreadsheet created for me in order to pull current prices but Ive no idea how to do this myself. Is it something you are experienced in? (you can see where this is going )
I don’t do spreadsheets.
I use a tool able to fetch all your accounts at the same time in parrallel, all the resources you own, all the buy/sell orders, and apply to all the bpos to find out all the possible and most interesting actions to take.
That tool is maintained by me and not shared, because it requires a lot of work and sharing it would just basically reduce my income to 0. I use spreadsheets when I want simple things, like getting min and max income from a simple activity - but when I need to iterate over the whole blueprints of the game, it’s just faster to use a dedicated program.
however it’s easy to do for a limited number of items : you fetch the historical price of the item from the esi tool, put in in the spreadsheet and then I guess you have statistical data that give things.
Hi @Dora_Milaje - welcome to the delights of a brokered market.
This is a little out of scope of the original thread here, but you’ve asked the question…
A market covers an entire Region. I’ll use Domain - the heart of the Amarrian Empire - as I know it well.
As a buyer I’ll create an order in a station, such as the EFA station in Amarr. That offer to buy says “I’ll pay anything upto {X} ISK for {widgets} within {range} of this station.”
When you want to sell something you are making an offer to sell “I will sell {widgets} for anything above {Y} ISk at this station”.
So when you look at the market you are seeing all the offers to buy and sell.
When you click “sell” the price in your sell offer that is made by default is equal to the best buy offer that matches that item at your station. So critically it has to be in the range of a buyers offer. You may have seen an offer to buy five jumps away at a nice price, but if that offer is only valid at that station that offer to buy was made, then it’s not a match for an immediate sell.
However someone will have created a lower buy offer that does fall in range and that is what you are matching with. That’s often a very low price - it’s a common “not really a con”.
In principle, the discount of a ranged order is the cost of “not having to lug it across space”.
I’ll buy widgets for a good price if you haul them to Amarr EFA for me. If you want to sell them locally in Mista and I have to spend time (and risk) to go a dozen jumps to fetch them, then I’m paying less for them.
love coming into trade & mission hubs to see all the buy orders for one common item. hehe, they do all the work for me in advance as i slap all those beautiful 9s in as i bring it all to cost. Market gank at its finest. love it.
ill have to look at your site to understand it properly but in this example where would you price this item to place and forget. i am thinking somewhere in the middle of the green so 155/160m? (without checking if that is actually profitable as I write this)
Not in tune with the Triglavian ships, just took that by random. But looking at all the charts , seeing the significant increase in supply and the fall of the manufacturing cost I’d guess the price to fall. The trade volume also increased but not as significantly.
Thus I’d stick a buy order at 108M above the sharp rise in the depth graph. Based on the history if that fills there should be a profit possible within a reasonable time.
Based on the assumption above, I’d sell Vedmaks on stock rather sooner than later.
But since I’m currently not fully invested in EVE and with the the Invasion changes, there may be factors from there, that throw this in a completely different direction.
I guess I am not cut out to read charts, thanks for the info Ethan, its a great site, full of great info but for someone like me, its just overload and i struggle, I think ill back out of what I am trying to do and go for something less intimidating.
Eve is a commodity market and commodity markets are cyclical. I use the price history tab in the market tool to study the cycle for the products I’m interested in. I list in the top half of the cycle and won’t chase the market into the bottom half. I simply wait for the market to come to me - it rarely takes long but I sell high volume items like drones. In the smaller hubs I adjust my prices twice a day - in the morning before work and in the evening after supper.
I’m getting to the point where I can tell when the market is about to turn - I’ll then position some product well above market and try to catch the bounce - it’s a lot of fun when it works!
thanks @Do_Little if you have the skill and the knowledge to read that then that is all good stuff. What has become apparent to me since looking into this is that I am no good at understanding charts, either on the adam4eve website (which I have looked at before this evening) or indeed the price history in game.
Sure I am making a profit on some of the things I sell but that is doing some extremely basic math (which essentially is putting an item in https://eve-industry.org/calc/ and then seeing in game if the prices are similar and going for anythign that I A: have as a BPC and B: the prices are similar.
I was trying to take it to the next level by doing some manufacturing but also inter region trade to move out to various places but my inability to interpret the in/out of game information correctly means that at the moment I am going about things in a very very long winded way and well… its not enjoyable., and being able to read those things is pretty key to both enjoying it and being succesful at it.
It is what it is though and I guess some people are just better at that kind of thing than I am, so currently, unless I get a second wind Ill manufacture from the stuff I have now, sell of the stuff in the other regions and go do something else.
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