Probe vs Magnate Exploration Base Sensor

I just spent the last 3 days skilling up Minmatar Frigate to level 4 so I can use the Probe for Exploration. Until now I have been using the Magnate. I wanted the extra mid slot so that I could use the Scan Rangefinding Array without losing one of my other favourites the Cargo Scanner.

After the skill up was complete I checked my Base Scanner Strength on both ships (I am currently still at Amarr Frigate level 3, but level 4 is in the queue).

With Sisters Probes, and Scan Range Finding Array fitted
Probe Base Scanner Strength = 76 (with lvl 4 frigate skill)
Magnate Base Scanner Strength = 78 (with lvl 3 frigate skill)

In the Ship Characteristics both ships have identical bonuses. What gives?
I am Amarr. Do I get a racial bonus for flying the Magnate?

Thanks

Did you fit Magnate with rigs that affect scanning strength - gravity capacitor upgrade?
Are you sure you have identical core probe launchers? it just might be possible that you have used Sister’s launcher on magnate.

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Yep. Gravity Capacitor Upgrade. Mystery solved thanks.

Maybe it’s a sign you shouldn’t be a heretic…

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lol. Yeah unfortunate noobie name choice. Too late to change it.

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Btw, should have gone for Galente frigates instead of Minmatar - same 1 mid advantage and crosstraining amarr/galente opens the door to Astero.

Thanks. I plan to train Gallente Frigate next. I think I’d like to try out the Atron for brawling. On the other hand I would like to train racial destroyer… So many skills to train, so little time.

eve implies being patient

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I can recommend Amarrian destroyers - good ships especially if you’ve trained Amarrian weapon systems. The Coercer is a good all turret ship, though eight turrets does things to your capacitor. The Dragoon is a drone boat with a nasty side of capacitor neuting. If you are going for a T3D then the Confessor is one of the better + though I’ve a soft spot for the Gallente Hecate.

Names: yep, the one bit of advice I’d give anyone at character creation is “no joke names, it can not be changed”. I can just imagine your application to some of the loyalist groups:
looks over glasses and rechecks the name on the paperwork
“So, Heretic, tell me about your parents…”.

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:heavy_plus_sign:

You can always buy skill injectors for grinded ISK or RL money (PLEX from CCP sold in-game). :smiling_imp:

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If you think strategically, you should skill all 4 race’s frigs to V to be able to fly all the cool T2 Frigs :wink:

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Thanks. I checked this out last nite. A skill injector would almost wipe out my wallet. lol.

Can you recommend any fits for these (PVE and PVP)? I prefer the Coercer because I am not very familiar with drones. I am currently training Amarr Destroyer IV. I’m having difficulty making a cap stable Coercer better than my Executioner for offence/defense. My Executioner does 151 dps (Imp Nav MF), with about 2400 EHP. Plus it is fast for brawling.

Also, not sure how to use the Coercer. It seems too slow for brawling. Kiting using Radio crystals it even does less dps than my Executioner.

Thanks

Here some Dragoon info
I like this Destroyer, not just a cannonboat but it has some versatile variations in stock. DPS alone is no solution, you also have to be able to apply the damage, and (light) drones are very reliable in even hitting smallest enemy vessels.
Aaaand I was able to neut down Dagan in a Dragoon. It took ages, but it worked :wink:

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The Coercer is a very different beastie to the Executioner. It is a frigate destroyer (that’s the origin of the name Destroyer for a class of naval ship), so carriers enough defence to fight frigates well with enough firepower to melt them. At Range.

Fitting concepts for PvP and PvE are very different. I’ll explain how/why I fit rather than detailed fits because my skills are different to yours.

So, for PvE. Firstly, cap stability with everything running isn’t important. If I can keep running for a few minutes with what I need that’s enough - balance your cap usage. With any destroyer you want to fight at range; you have range bonuses and you manage incoming damage by killing things quickly.

You are not brawling at 2km, you are 10km or more away using the heavier alpha of beam lasers to pop an NPC in one or two volleys rather than grinding him down.

A Coercer can easily handle Level 1 missions, Level 2 with management and care.

With a Dual Light Beam II Coercer, a heatsink in the lows and a collision rig, loaded with Navy Standard S I’m getting 185dps at 20km. 10% more than a crude Pulse fitted DPS Executioner gets at 4km.

With Navy Multifrequency S I’m getting 280dps at 10km.

That’s a good foundation. Add a damage control in the lows and a repairer and that’s a reasonable base. You can put a 5MN MWD and a Webifier in the mids and it’ll run missions. An energy turret metastasis adjuster rig will help application. The other rig is your choice (a semiconductor memory cell is always a good “not sure what” option).

Dual Beam because they are easier to fit and track better. We’re not planning on giving the NPCs chance to hurt you, so a single repairer is there on a “just in case”. For a lot of Level 1 missions you’ll kill at range taking almost no damage. The MWD is there to give you a blip of speed to break range (and anything chasing you is easier to hit than something orbiting) the Webifier slows anything that gets too close to the point you can melt it; Gleam S if you can load it has a 25% tracking bonus at a range cost (half the range of MF). If the little horror gets too close, web him, switch to gleam and burn his face off.

You’ll want to think seriously about using “keep at range” (either 10km or 20km - optimal for MF or Standard) to reduce traversal - tracking on beams is poor so you’ll need to manage it. You’ll have to learn to fly!

So. PvP. Harder.

But people underestimate the Coercer, which is your advantage. I’ve seen a lot of success with a shield Coercer - drop the repairer for another Heatsink - keep the damage control; we are in the kill first business now. The two turret rigs are good - the target will want traversal, you need to track him.

So, mid-slots. A 5MN MWD and a medium shield extender (T2 if you can). Bung a shield extender rig in and you’ve a ship that will do 300+DPS at 10km and 8k ehp. It’s fairly skill demanding though. If you can control the starting conditions, then you can do 220dps at 20km with the MWD for some range control. You’ll want to keep traversal low, so keep at range again rather than Orbit. This becomes a game of attrition - can you melt him before he can deal with you?

Downside: no tackle - if he can close you down and shut off your MWD, you are in a kill or be killed match (but you’ve got good DPS at that range but poor tracking). Also, no tackle means he can break off if he wants. You are relying on his red mist overcoming an objective view of what this “easy kill” Coercer is doing to the paintwork. They are really good defensive ships where the idea is to drive off an attacker rather than just kill him - especially since you can set up 20-40km from warp-in and engage at range. Pair with a tackler and you are in a happy place. Bung in a Crucifier as well and any attacker is suddenly castrated, pinned and demolished.

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Thanks for this very detailed explanation. It helps a lot. Learning to fight with a Coercer is definitely completely different than my brawler fit Executioner. With the Executioner I was constantly trying to figure out strategies to get in under the guns and keep Angular Velocity at the right range to avoid being hit by the target yet being able to hit the target. Took some trial and error and exploding Executioners to figure out. Guess I’m starting from scratch with the Coercer :slight_smile:

Yes, this is definite. When I take a fit from Youtube, or another player I often find that I can’t get the fit to work for me because I am missing -0.5 power grid or, -5.0 CPU or something. The overall idea is much more help.

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That experience with the Executioner, learning to manage traversal while closing range, will stand you in good stead, both when flying other ships where you need to close range, and especially when flying an interceptor when “good flying” is your only real defence.

But you are now learning that different ships fly differently - that this is a much more complex place than you thought.

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